zdo

Preface: almost slipped up and put this note in the more current Beyond Taylor thread but there is really nothing ‘beyond’ about it… FWIW, I am closing / (temporarily?) suspending trading on a 9 (mostly with some + 1 bar variance) bar ‘book’ on a day session 195 minute chart that has been bangin it for years now… Have been ‘off this book’ since 10/25 and project I’ll be ‘off book’ for about six weeks… forgot to mention it then… it will be interesting to see what ‘book’ develops next. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Last edited by tradingwizzard; 11-04-2013 at 03:54PM. :missy:

twiz, ... pls make up your mind... first you squelch any talk about underlying conditions - "in the end, technical analysis prevails" etc etc. ... then you spew "Fed signals", "end of QE?" "Tapering? " None these 'technicals' or (what you are calling) 'fundamentals' are on topic to your original neely LINK... you're blowing up your own thread... None of the timeframes you're using - even including the weeklies - are on topic to your original neely LINK... more blowing up your own thread... and no amount of censoring zdo will fix that... Maybe someone should remind you that EW is not going to attract much participation anyways... not real smart to drive the already limited support for EW topics away... If you're really all that good with (e)Wave trading you should go private, proprietary - Dominick style - instead of looking all wishy washy up in here in your bully pulpit.... zdo -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Last edited by tradingwizzard; 11-04-2013 at 03:18PM.

...lagging response... you might not need it now...but degree = absvalue(arctangent(Avg- Avg[1])); Then you can 'categorize' flatness by using stddev of degree... using dynamic / fuzzy or fixed brackets a few unsolicited comments and questions... isn't it going to take an inordinate long time for a 100 ma to go 'flat'?... ie by the time it measures flat, it's about time for mkt to not be flat anymore ?

Somebody pls help us out… what does whether this little congestion on the weekly breaks north or south have to do with dow making it to 100000 or not? have a great weekend all.

good lord twiz first … I thought it was just me then… I thought it was just him either way…now I’m starting to ‘understand’ Mits comments to / about you over in the Fractal thread… ...still bumpn the question, twiz ...

he definitely knew about 'qe' and eventual 'QE'... still it's my impression that... ... btw, now you're putting words in my mouth it's not about "reason(s)" it's more about 'relative to('s)' ...still bumpn the question, twiz ...

Twiz, bump It is my impression that Neely thought ‘growth’ would be a much more significant factor than ‘hyperinflation’ to get us to 100000 dow. Is that your impression?

someone should say something. ... Back on (an ET thread in TL) topic… It is my impression that Neely thought ‘growth’ would be a much more significant factor than ‘hyperinflation’ to get us to 100000 dow. Is that your impression? ie …are we @ ‘2007 America’ or @ ‘2006 Zimbabwe’ or @ … ? A Tale of Two Charts: Are We 2007 America or 2006 Zimbabwe? | John Rubino | Safehaven.com “To inform people is hard slugging.” Paul Craig Roberts ....observing those inner figures... when an inner bear has had enough and 'finally decides' to capitulate to the long side ... is generally a good time to be one....

In addition to my attempts above to comment that such an advance denominated in USD may really not be that much of an accomplishment… someone should also note that (and ...understandably, you’ll deny inferring such … but) an underlying tone of your posts is that it’s going to go there straightly, directly and that all one needs to do is ‘long bias’. So - some ‘voice of experience’ to all our overleveraged ‘long bias’ buddies out there ---- I did very well overleveraged and ‘long bias’ in the indexes through the 90’s, but there were at least a dozen times I was ‘right’ in the long term but had I stayed long stubbornly, I would have gone bust… “To inform people is hard slugging.” Paul Craig Roberts

... maybe more 'sales' coming... yet ... charles hugh smith-The Gathering Storm ps does china,inc have enough margin money to drive paper pm's down ?

( btw he mentions gov’t “shutdown” , debt ceilings, etc some thoughts re that Was the Debt Ceiling Crisis a Lie? | Gains Pains & Capital It should also be noted – in the form of a multiple choice question The debt ceiling has now been suspended completely for a) 90 days b) Forever c) None of the above. I know , I know , it’s unfathomable how I can be so dam cynical. :missy: )

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkURz6H0I0I]Lenny Kravitz, :"It Ain't Over Till It's Over" - YouTube[/ame]

Mits, Thanks for the excellent ‘pre going beyond’ due diligence on the history. Seems like a lot of those times where he didn't 'keep it' , he had continued to act, etc. as if the 'environment' hadn't changed, even though it had... Things are rarely just blue and pink – most times we have to deal in shades of green… A lot of my interest in this ‘thread’ stems from a dilemma I was experiencing near when I started the thread. Several years ago I crossed into the zone where one of my new ‘rules’ became, in essence, never touch the principle * . … and then recently I started seeing possible MAJOR (and, yes, RISK filled) opportunities that provided me temptations to question that ‘rule’ :haha: just one more time (… which on a long enough time horizon always = famous last words :helloooo: ). and, yes, the "swing a big line" bizzness you discussed above was involved... ...speaking of that... did you know that while the 'heavy bats' of baseball history form the top ten list of the of runs scored, except for number one at crossing home plate was Ricky Henderson who did it with his legs and wits not his bat ??... anyways... Independent of the thread, I was blessed to wake up the next morning with my conflict resolved - but still have a general interest in questioning the ‘pinker’ legends like JL– as opposed to the ‘bluer’ , or ‘hybrid’ ones like found in the trading wizards books etc. Have a great weekend all. zdo * which is rooted an eventual shift in perspective for all of us who live past a certain ‘age’, btw

Are we going circular? Could impatience be just another way of describing not following rules ? And could not following rules be just another way of saying literally can’t follow rules ? (rules as defined by self not others btw … and mits I don’t think they are as susceptible to misinterpretation as often as you allude … nor are they in ambivalence producing ‘conflict’ often if properly ‘designed’ and the trader has done the work to make the odds explicit… but those things are beside the point… point is) If a trader as good as Livermore gets to points where he couldn’t follow his ‘rules’ all the time – then can anyone? Impatience… Stubbornness… Mental state words... mental states somewhat tainted by something emotional? Impatience… what about the present could he not accept? Does anyone know the story of his first blowup?

Yep I had ‘trouble’ reading Reminiscences... too… not getting much further myself with http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/books/131-jesse-livermore-worlds-greatest-stock-trader.html preview,etc at Jesse Livermore: World's Greatest Stock Trader - Richard Smitten - Google Books but others may get something from it. .....A story is a story is a story… He blew up and came back how many times? That, to me, is the core of his usefulness as a 'model' … and not because he came back (almost*) every time! With that many blowups, the usefulness is in the possible clues of why he blew up… and in maybe discovering whether in those blowups he had any ‘control’ of it at all ??? Did he have his trademark precise ‘control’ - then suddenly not have that ‘control’? Were factors at play that were beyond whether or not mrblue or mrpink or mr_____ or mr_____ were right or wrong that time / those times or whether he simply allowed mrblue or mrpink or mr_____ or mr_____ to have excessive influence when he shouldn’t have? *Got to keep our fkn suicide obsessed posters fed…

not ignoring suicide at all… check the early posts in the thread… it’s all connected. However, the only Beyond that is salient to us is NOT bluing up… for one, most of us herein do not have the seeds of suicide sprouting. for two, we may be folding “suicide” this and “suicide” that in here in every other dam post… meanwhilebackthen, his trading may have actually intervened in 'suiciding' for many many years or just as likely (and unknown (at least to me)) he may have run into life issues that triggered the previously dormant ‘suicidals’ only ‘shortly’ before he did it. How the hel is anyone going to really focus on his early blowups – where some important lessons are - if we keep elevating the suicide later in life up to the dominant thang… and fuss everytime someone suggests let’s step away from suicide for now… ? Yes. All true. And you're here to discourage us from even discussing it... ?? I don't want to stifle where the color misters might go esp in relation to "his [JL's] mindset/voices" ... mits is the real deal... but I would like to get into the big picture stuff at some point.. like how Dr. Lewis Lipsitz explains in his article of the same name that “Aging is a Process of Complexity Loss” (Complex Systems Science in Biomedicine; Topics in Biomedical Engineering, 2006, Part III, Section 7, 641-654). Lipsitz continues that, our nervous system craves complexity, and therefore, lacking complex challenges, aging accelerates. The corollary is also true, that complexity slows, halts and reverses the accelerated aging process, for our brains evolved to thrive by developing and refining complex and adapted movement. etc etc 'aging' being just one label... that's not exactly spot on for NOT blowing up and thriving in trading... still... to everything turn turn turn ... but sht, we can't get into that cause we're immersed in his eventual suicide. and can't allow that dam suicide to drop down even a single notch in importance.. The other day I was chiding my programmer and I quipped “this is the kind of sht that makes me want to put a gun to my head” … he came back “this is the kind of sht that makes me want to put a gun to your head too”

Some more random and hurried thoughts… "From Mr Livermores point of view.....Mr Pink sounds like he ran roughshod over Mr Blue in the final decision of his life..." Suiya, I continue to think we would get more traction giving less emphasis to the suicide part of the story… and more to his early blowups… From The Inner Voice of Trading Michael Martin Mits, these ‘colored voices’ are a hit with about 1 in 5… Cover Story: Maira Kalman's 'Blue Dog' : The New Yorker the rest of us will have some trouble relating… and I’m wondering if Suiya’s simplification "Maybe Mr Pink is simply impulsive and acts purely on the latest thought. Mr Blue is able to stop and think beyond a few steps." is it … or enough… or how it related to Jesse’s tape reading acumen, etc. ???? (note i'm not discounting the 'voices' - just trying to relate them to beyond jesse...) more from The Inner Voice of Trading Michael Martin

mits, in the 'we're not discussing drawdowns' post the intention was to keep us on topic. Beyond Livermore is not about drawdowns. Beyond Livermore is about blowups - even if they are 'slow' ones. Drawdowns are normal system bound series of losses that have little to do with the mistakes of the misters. Livermore took huge returns then blew them up instead of 'keeping' them. Simply being a good consisten trader, even taking large returns is not beyond livermore. Beyond Livermore is about taking large returns and then keeping them. ...and 'how mrblue and mrpink are involved in blowups' was a sincere question about your insights how these two 'voices' would be involved in blowups... more Beyond Livermore professionals tend to require a certain level of deferment, obsequiousness ... fat chance of them getting their requisite levels of that in here...:rofl:

So how would mrpink and mrblue blow up an account?

So is mr pink ‘counseling’ you to hold on to any given losing trade longer and deeper than you originally ‘planned’ ?

No doubt small perturbations can disrupt flows, etc much more than would be casually predicted from what was initially apparent – but … you got some splainin to do bub particularly how any of the content before has a dam thang to do with any of the content after ???and how anything after is anything but plain old technical analysis – mostly stolen from others whose work predates and far surpasses his. What is presented above and in the book, imo, is not even a helpful 101 (or lower) introduction to chaos theory … it is such useless piggybacking on a science ‘fad’ ( with “dimensions” and everything ) that it is more harmful than helpful to noobs and developing traders, etc… Harmful ? Yes, for starters, because neither his stolen ‘nawsome indicator’ nor his ‘balance’ will test out to be real pointers to or indicators of actual auction/mkt bifurcations … omg. Anyone really going for applying chaos theory will drop Bill William's bulsht yesterday. This is not such a demerit of the techniques as it is just letting peeps know none of the other oscillators, etc out there get at chaos theory any better or any worse than his “dimensions” and omg “fractals”. Those who are applying William's techniques are NOT tapping into chaos theory. They are simply applying pretty good TA. None of the books and articles (and funds started up) around trading chaos theory from that era were any good. William’s book – as it pertains to chaos theory – is the worst of them all… as it was the only fake among them… (and probably sold the most copies let's nominate him for the golden C hall of fame )… it would be much more honest if it were simply presented as a contribution to the body of ‘technicals’ Hate to be so hard on you on your first post in here, Harvey - but… until you really ‘splain… like an article - that does not pretend ‘chaos’ - about applying william’s techniques would be welcomed….

Mits, these inner colored people (and no, not being racist )… these ‘figures’ how much are they literal? with 'dialogue', etc how much are they figurative? illustrative of tendencies, oscillating tensions, etc. Thanks.

(In this crazy tl world, I don’t know if it should be said that it should be noted or not - but erring on the side of caution...) It should be noted – we are NOT discussing ‘drawdowns’ in this thread.

may be ... but (even though I linked things ‘inextricably’ dynamically, I did not make a strong link in his experiences of ‘his story’, etc. ie) I doubt his experiences of trading triggered the ‘necessity’ to blow his own brains out. More likely they prevented it, diminished the ideations of suicide… for many, many years. Here's a thank you note [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdVAqxNLXiw]Yellow - Coldplay - YouTube[/ame]

is mr pink a lesbian trapped in a… ? Lü Dongbin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Besides the ‘trading exploits in the head’ parallels, imo it is helpful to look at Jesse in some other, but irrevocably linked to going Beyond ( as in keeping your take) , areas of our lives. It is not meaningless to look at and compare one’s relationships with the other ‘sex’ ( the feminine in most our cases herein…etc.) His trading talents and distinctive trading perceptual and choice acumen (neural net development and 'wiring', etc), his chronic depressive fluid net states, his relationships, etc etc. are all inextricably linked...esp. to 'keeping the take'...