zdo

Fwiw, ‘narrative based’ day trading short Euro larger size in regular account the following Mon morning more than recouped the CHFJPY nominal drawdown amount. But, those funds will likely not be used to ‘refresh’ the OA account . That little account is pretty much on its own... btw that group of JPY trades * is still on in the OA account, including the short CHFJPY stinger which is still on at an avgprice of ~ 122.70 . It has currently recovered from about half the max adversity it ticked to intraday near 139.+ on 1/15 and, long haul, may still work ( ... especially if I ‘revenge trade’ a bit and throw on some well-timed long USDCHF. The voice of trading teachers always tell you to never ‘revenge trade’. I break that rule routinely. The correct spirit for revenge trading is important though... rather than do it to teach the monster a lesson or show it a (power)thing or two etc., do it simply and dispassionately to take back what the monster took from you... Inclusion of the term “well-timed” above is very important - especially when you’re dealing with a set of trades involving negative carry , etc... The use of the term “monster” is significant too. :helloooo:  ) * more fwiw - with cyclical short USDINR trades put on to offset interest costs / keep interest flow just barely net positive in the account...

My ‘short answer’ would also be NO - especially at first. An important early and crucial stage in the development of any proficiency is simply ‘playing around with it”. Don’t corrupt that stage for yourself . Referencing others’ “insights”, taking lessons, modeling others, etc. etc. comes later... when your ‘brains’ know (not necessarily consciously) what exactly they need to learn. "All things vibrate, and they vibrate at their own frequencies. When you understand this...your eyes will open to things you never seen before-things previously pushed to the back of your consciousness ..." ~Dr. Emoto It is vastly more important to ‘see yourself seeing’, to ‘see how you are seeing’ than it is to learn what others are seeing. (Further unsolicited but related bzarnes and going against the grain of 99% of the voice of trading ‘teachers’ out there, I have also always encouraged noobs to trade live right out the gate... tests you and your match to trading quickly... ultimately saves a lot of your life / time. ) hth

HP, Thanks a lot for bringing it up. Don’t have time to ‘discuss’ much .... Fwiw, I took a 10% haircut - strike that - took a 10% beheading of NAV to a small, very inactive ( ie mostly abandoned since they stopped carrying PM’s several years ago ) OANDA account via a CHF/JPY position leveraged at 10:1. In my 'head' it was a JPY play - one position in a cluster of JPY plays in that account - ... and that particular part of the play had been working. That play on the JPY "symbol" in my head turned out to be, among other errors, a “Category Error” For a good treatment of “Category Error”, etc. see Epsilon Theory - Salient Partners | Ghost in the Machine, Part 1 ...cute stuff like in that article. So, even though in this case I could have lost that whole account without pain, it is proving to be a good 'learning moment' for me...... for some unknown reason the whole deal reminded me of Biondo and Pluchino Phys. Rev. E 88, 062814 (2013) - Reducing financial avalanches by random investments Improbable Research » Blog Archive etc also , re why SNB action has not been discussed on TL, for snicks see On the Certainty of Uncertainty, or: Why there is no Skepticism beyond Self-Skepticism - disinformation Hopefully someone will take up the conversation with you without just a bunch of links-a-lot zdo

Thanks for refreshing this for us, Rande. Synchronistically, this recently popped back to the fore in my work with a new ‘mentee’. Growing a practice of simple awareness of one’s own unique “representations” is best seen as a process run independent of OVERCOMING - via ‘concentrating’ and ‘effort’ - all the ‘listed’ psychological problems and dynamics traders encounter ... hypothetically this ‘practice’ may be preliminary to or even independent of working with the aspects you call “belief lens”. Thoughts?? Traders, if you want, you can find examples of how easy it is to get sucked back into mushing the two together at ... all threads, btw, that I abandoned because posts by others (and then myself) ‘tractor-beamed’ the thread off my original intent. How quickly we in the ‘west’ are pulled off ‘process’ back into ‘goals’, etc. etc.... http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/trading-psychology/8410-edge-first-integration-first-both-first.html http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/healthy-trader/16008-untitled-rant-about-trading-psychology.html http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/trading-psychology/7576-flow-thyself.html In essense - When you cannot intentionally be aware of your own ‘markethesia’, the only possible result is a progressively worsening and painful ‘dysfunctional markethesia’ ... this 'essence' is best seen separate from any and all ‘trading psychology’ - and even separate from all the stuff with a ‘neuro-‘ prefix...

... ...what goes around comes around... ... dabbling on the long side of the EUR into the year end... :spam: happy holidays all...

Clarificaton of my msg - ie more off topic repetition The message is simple. Each person needs to differentiate for self between trading, investing, and wealth preservation. Check the narrative in your posts. It acutely mishmash conflates all three of them. The “Regular programming” in here on this TL thread is traders / “swappers” doing their TA and sentiment thang. I am first and foremost a trader so I have nothing against it and trading paper PM’s… except in most times there are contracts that provide more bang for the buck…except ‘trading’ it based on the background collective memehope that it will again go especially parabolic ‘works’ only 1 in 30 times it is ‘predicted’… Culturally, typical ‘regular programming’ is MSMs doing anything but ‘gold buggin’ … they never stop sabotaging beliefs that gold might possibly be king. They never stop promoting alternatives. They mish PM’s into the ‘investments’ category - ignoring that investments must be productive. In your MSM supportive story, since 19xx or 20xx, it has even performed horribly against all other assets and other “fx trades”. On one front is a narrative to sustain the false dialectics of paper bugs vs gold bugs. It promotes “swapping” as fast as possible to discourage ‘investing’ in gold as a vote of no confidence in cash producing businesses… programming you to diversify as much as possible into paper debt tickets of an insolvent global private banking corporation whose only saving grace is the ability to create more paper debt tickets at will and without supervision. In this “Regular programming” meme, ‘gold’ can be nothing but price sensitive. … for the record, I never ‘invest’ in PM’s. In uncontaminated ‘preservation of capital’, one’s perspective is NOT price sensitive - period. Again, each person needs to clearly demarcate for him or her self between trading, investing, and wealth preservation. As gold only goes parabolic 1 in 30 times it is predicted to, even more rarely - ~ 1 in 300 times? - that it is ‘predicted’ , the system eventually does an‘ accounting’ of financialization - with an inevitable and very rare transfer of wealth to the people that own gold and silver. Who knows? and Who knows when? Prior to that - - PMs may even become a useless relic - especially on ‘spiritual’ levels… then suddenly .,. like “There are decades where nothing happens; and there are weeks where decades happen.” Vladimir Ilich Lenin * BANG !! Enough ( off topic ) said. I only post in this thread to encourage those coming behind me to make those stark demarcations for themselves... We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming replete with its confirmation and conservation biases to continuity and business as usual… meanwhile scissors cut your paper at a non alarming target of 2% per year … compounded… etc PS Re: “zombies” Physical Gold is about preservation of capital for light, life, and growth… no surprise zombies and their potential targets have no apparent access to or utility for it in their stories. “When an inner situation is not made conscious, it appears outside of you as fate.” CG Jung Re: "baby Jesus’s gold" - Joseph diversified most of it into shekels for groceries. He later sold the rest to put Jesus through carpenter college. Like most messiahs, Jesus never releases his transcripts… there are whispers that he dropped out. Prine? Kristoferson? * while we’re on quotes of (a)typical Russians and their "FX trades" Vladimir Lenin Quotes - BrainyQuote Joseph Stalin Quotes - BrainyQuote SIUYA, Hope you (and everyone else too) have wonderful winter holidays

… the regular programming sure started right back up. "Gold can certainly have a bear market " Let's hope so! The stupid stuff has been in a 6000 year bubble "the example of the Russian trade is simply an FX trade - not a gold trade" actually from a russian's pov, it was not an FX trade, nor a gold trade. It was a 'non trade' that made the example And to the linked article… here’s a digest Boys and girls… Swap all the gold you have for something else as quickly as possible. Follow these recommendations from your friends who are paid (and unpaid… voices of trading ) to encourage you to exchange, trade, and swap papers and stuff as much as possible- > Never come off your ‘investment’ perspective. (really it’s ‘our’ investment perspective - to always measure valuation in terms of fiat and productivity ... to always mentally see and operate as if storing value, investing, and trading are all identical activities - but you best accept it and never question it and make it yours too) > Best to “swap” ‘it’ into currency. That way you’re primed to "swap" again for something that Buffett isn’t "swapping" for… like safely loan it out at almost usurious rates, or take stakes in companies that now systemically just can’t ever go down in value, or get slick and "swap" this currency for another that is ‘moving’. …someday maybe use technical and sentiment analysis to accumulate some gold again … however But - if you want to swap for a more trending ‘store of value’ that is still ‘physical’… > The following items from the article will hold value. They are indestructible and have no special environmental storage or transport requirements: Autographs, Stamps, Memorabilia, Wine, Ceramic vases, Vintage cars, Art works, Watches, Guns and ammo. They can all be thrown around and buried in plain dirt. (And speaking of dirt, don't swap for any of that sht either. It's not on the list.) > List mentions Diamonds. Great choice! Like the other items above you don’t need any special knowledge or experience to swap diamonds cost free… > The final item on the list, coins, really shouldn’t even be on their list. Why? The first words in the article title were “Forget Gold” Gold is bearish. ... as in currencies are better ... as in Most don't want it. Don't be one of the ones who do want it. Forget gold. Gold is bearish... end digest

moneybags, re: "Don't you mean "goner"... a person that is doomed or can not be saved. " Actually, I was just noting that it was an old thread. I typically encourage traders to go live right out the gate and discourage 'paper trading'... We can't really say about neeko. Maybe one post was all he ever needed to see through the 'voice of trading' and he's doing fine...

We now return you to your regularly scheduled Paper Covers Rock programming

btw peeps - neeko is 'gone' ... ie this is for general 'discussion' / fyi purposes only re: and re: My question would be - why utilize the HA at all? ...it is the equivalent of an exponential moving average... Used alone, or in conjunction with the additional 'indicators' mentioned, or even in conjunction with unmentioned / unconscious additional 'indicators' , across time ( and various, and typically much lower 'vix'es) , would it help a trader, esp. a beginner, outrun the whip ? tried to attach an illustration... Manage Attachments button does nothing... more censoring? ... more of TL taking to disingenuously claiming they're somehow revolutionizing online conversation -- by making sure there's less of it. ?

same, =, ... hth (enough characters yet?)

message too short make it at least 20 characters

Mystic, ...challenge is to keep both ways… and find ways to know when to do each. More accurately, find ways to slide the size weighting of each ‘system’ to the proportion of each that gives you the best odds across time ...without being whipsawed when the ‘narrative’ inevitably shifts… ..."Everyone has a plan until they get hit in the mouth."– Mike Tyson Have a great holiday all zdo

Good question... thankfully, it's not Mystic ... re: "abandoned"... Maybe. and, btw, if there are new 'owners' or even mgmt, a announcement would be appropriate...maybe that happened? I haven't been around much... ... – Ayn Rand; Atlas Shrugged, 1957

In my experience, the only “can’t loose” PM ‘trade’ is to be a price insensitive accumulator of the physicals across time… to the point where you then start only exchanging one physical element for another… and only using currencies/debt in transactions at all for any ‘hedging’ [snic] via derivatives you might be doing. Each and every other PM ‘trade’ can and most likely will at some point along the way be considered as a “can loose” (or "loss" or however you might spel it.) or at minimum, a suboptimal allocation of capital... : citations removed to delay being banned

In looking at this old question, we need to be careful not to conflate that universe of those who have ever hopened an account with those who actually embody trader … only a ‘sample of one’ can know the differences … the ‘voice of trading’ can never tell us…

Maybe he’s busy scrutinizing the 63 tonnes of naked shorts you added on the other day

OFF TOPIC ie SwingTrading you probably should start your own thread... It’s system dependent… one old ‘swing oriented’ trick for that particular issue is when you get setup and triggered then place entry limit order where you would have previously been placing the stop… another way, also system dependent in the particulars and varieties of its application, is to trail a stop up under (for a short) when a setup and trigger form instead of simply getting in… so that it's price movement in your favor that puts you in positions… Again, all this is very system dependent... entries and stop techniques and placement ... “Learn” to ‘think in probabilities’… Note: Use of the words “learn” and ‘think in probabilities’ is massive oversimplification / generality… short labels that obfuscate far more than they explain… the ‘thinking’ part is only one aspect of the whole process… and no explanations will ever take you closer to experiencing ( in my own 'sample of one' experience, preparation of the body precedes any possibility/capacity to authentically and consistently do the ‘think’ part…) ‘think in probabilities’ = you ready you to for multiple re-entries after being stopped out and none of them are one “bit frustrating”. * I'd post some references and links...but, in this fkn place, it would get me banned... "I did what I did for the good of the realm." "The realm. Do you know what the realm is? It's the thousand blades of Aegon's enemies; a story we agreed to tell each other—over and over, 'til we forget that it's a lie." "But what do we have left, once we abandon the lie? Chaos. A gaping pit waiting to swallow us all." "Chaos isn't a pit. Chaos is a ladder. * ...Many who try to climb it fail; never get to try again.The fall breaks them. And some are given a chance to climb and they refuse. They cling to the realm. Or gods. Or love. Illusions. Only the latter is real. The climb is all there is." —Baelish to Varys, Game Of Thrones; Season 3, Episode 6 (The Climb), @48:00

Chris, Have you ever talked with him directly ? zdo

Chris, Sorry to have corrupted your thread. Will say a couple more things for the benefit of all and move on … seeking the ‘testimony’ of TL members - who may or may not be lying - to use as a factor in deciding whether or not to buy? The stack of ‘testimonials’ on his site are not enough? Wouldn’t contacting him directly requesting 3 current ‘references’ be more effective? ( Take it (or not) from someone who has 'used' testimonials in that fashion a couple of times.)... The most important point is - How someone else does in a trading training program has no significant relevance to how you will do. Any great ‘plusses’ salient to them will likely not have much or any importance to you at all. Combinatorial individual differences in tradingDNA - inclinations, aptitudes, “engrammed” biases, etc are that large and significant - enough to render ‘testimonials’ virtually worthless. ( :haha: Take it (or not) from someone who in the late 80’s spent more than 100,000 USD + mucho other costs on trading education and coaching. I don't think there has been that much price inflation of the ‘curriculum’ since then - the 5k courses are still 5k, etc… but the travel, lodging , and etc costs in todays’ dollars - whoosh! If I hadn’t had testimonials from friends who spent more than that in half the time on cocaine and etc. I would really think I was an idiot  ) ie Buyer beware! ... but not because the vendor is bad! Buyer beware because the odds of finding a good match for your real needs are less than miniscule ! all the best ... really hope it all works out for you. zdo

Chris, Fwiw, MM was not being sarcastic. He was coming from a completely valid viewpoint (the viewpoint of a ‘normal’) and he was attempting to be truthful and helpful… My thoughts: Horst is barking up multiple trees. I think many of them are appropriate trees. … and, btw, not trees that most ‘tudors’ will be barking up. However, that says nothing about your compatibilities to work with him, in his models, successfully. Trading ‘students’ need to realize they need to already have a way of perceiving and acting on mkt information (charts, maps, stories, numbers, whatever ) discovered, established, and conscious - then find someone who can help them deepen the effectiveness of their own ‘market DNA’. Trading students need to realize they can’t just have an off-the-cuff interest in a method, go to an expert in that method and expect to learn to be able to perceive and act the same way as the teacher. ie a large percentage of the salient things the teacher has 'condensed' and mastered, you will forever remain essentially 'blind' to / ineffective / inconsistent at. Example: With just a glance, I think the most important thing he teaches re actual trading is how to switch btwn "pivot" and "trend" trading (to him, trend is not (nec) your friend, etc, etc)... but what if you have absolutely NO aptitudes for his way of switching ??? Opinion: In order for you to get anywhere close to your money’s worth of your total costs (~$5000 & _ & _ & _ … ?) , you need to basically be an indigo child already… and if that’s the case, or even near the case, your trading career will be short-lived anyways… a phase of 'intuitive trading' will not even be a good life ‘stepping stone’ long term for you... Some questions - Do you understand that most of his ‘programming’ only opens ways to access and rush to the ‘opposite’ polarities…to the “Positive”, etc etc. ? … that they do not neutralize those polarities / really put you at choice ? Do you operationally already believe ie embody “thought precedes matter.”? Might not such an assumption / uncon. blf be as erroneous as the currently consensus belief that “matter precedes thought.”? Might not he be trying to teach that to convince himself and once ‘convinced’ / worked through he will not be coaching anymore? Are you a deep EFT ‘responder’ ? ie is it an effective modality for you? ? ? ? ie here questions asked and answered for yourself would be better than ours... … not saying you are not a match for this program… not saying you are not a perfect match… however like MM I’m trying to be truthful with you… While MM's saying it's crap, I'm saying the odds of you being even a marginal match for this program are extremely low… that’s just the reality of the trading coach / player game hth

the 'perceptual blurs' that the 'voice of trading' traders have btwn real traders, and the agencies and brokers that spring up to exploit them, may be much more extant than I imagine or am in touch with. But I'm still trying to figure out why you would bring this stuff into this conversation/topic. “it is all talking sub-sets that confuses the issue.” SUIYA. I asked myself "what does this remind me of?” and a memory from long ago about the subgroup who consciously believe they aren't trying to screw you but really are unconsciously trying to screw you from a robert ringer book popped up... if you insist on continuing with this aspect, please make some clear distinctions for us around business and commerce and how various ways of trading fits in to that... and then tie it somehow back to the topic, how all that is coachable. ….trying to get back on topic .... sht, SU, I don't know if you read me correctly or not Let me rehash Re: “Neurological studies show that financial losses are more than twice as painful emotionally as the same size gain is ‘pleasurable’” [the ‘single quotes’ around “pleasurable” are mine] There is a (cyclically new again annual rehash) thread nearby that brings up the old “95% lose” question - again. My 'stats' have it closer to 80% but the point here is of whatever percentage the industry measures as 'losers', a large portion of those do not really 'lose' as in blow out... 30 + %, of traders I've met over the years that turned out to be losers were really promising (... guys who I could tell just by looking at them and listening to them that they had what it takes to 'select' good trades...) and their PL statements didn't turn out to be red on the bottom line. Instead, they turned out to be 'faders away' from the game.... and most of them NEVER realized that's what happened to them. In my current level of understanding, I'm saying that at a structural level, they were never able to fully acknowledge and accommodate to “financial losses are more than twice as painful emotionally as the same size gain”. In my own trading, the only way I was able to stay in the game was to reach for and attain a higher hit rate and smaller stop size than any crowd meme in the 'voice of trading' of trading forums will allow the possibility of . So, again, in that 78% who don't make it, a large percentage do blow out. But a large percentage doesn't blow out – they fade out because of the bound flow they bring to the game to start with... bound flow that is not acknowledged by the gurus of the voice of trading. The 'voice of trading' won't hear of it, but dealing with this is far more important - ultimately - than learning wackoff or any other of many wonderful methods... … so to the coaching part of the topic Find us a coach on this planet who truly demands raising acknowledgement of “Neurological studies show that financial losses are more than twice as painful emotionally as the same size gain is pleasurable” and who knows how and will really work with that structurally instead of behaviorally … show us a coach who really understands ( the largely unacknowledged) impact of pain throughout any and all performance work. Remember this audience is largely those trying to pass out of the group below 78% to above 78%. They do not really realize qualitatively how 'winning is hard'. Where's the adequate coaching for that? ... so while for those already firmly away from the 'cusp' of winners / losers, “a coach might help when in a slump” ie even for them , the available 'coaching' on this planet is statistically not worth a try. re: “how's the writing?” It is not 'safe' for me to write freely herein about it. :missy: “My definition of a free society is a society where it is safe to be unpopular.” Adlai Stevenson

SIUYA, I’m getting a whiff of the associations you just made… and as usual I will trash or ignore them… what’s new, right? (hey you do it too ) You know (don’t you?) that with that link you just argued with the bottom of your OP … and more importantly, you shifted the conversation from with those around the cusp of ‘profitable’ / ie those trying to enter or stay in the 78 to 97% ‘surviving pareto’ to those at or past the cusp of the top 3% Hey jack! That is verboten on TL … it is an unspoken rule (that they rarely even break on ET). You must stay with the ‘voice’ of trading that is by and for those clustered around and attempting to break cleanly out of the bottom 78% ‘loosers’ into the ‘surfivers’ ‘pareto’ that make up the ‘middle’ ~ 19% of traders… There is only a tiny audience for those who attempt to post for those at or near the top cusp… or for the weensy teensy group that will actually attempt to authentically jump the ‘turtles’ (as in the top illustration in your link) to the third tiny top tier of the trading equivalent of ‘monopoly profits’ (… and, btw, posts for those at or near the top cusp will quickly get corrupted by posts from the mindset of the ‘voice of trading’…) … Back on topic to your first link in the OP… what is the most salient phrase or point in that article? To me, it is the part about “Neurological [* ] studies show that financial losses are more than twice as painful emotionally as the same size gain is ‘pleasurable’” [the ‘single quotes’ around “pleasurable” are mine] I have yet to see a trading coach (in here or anywhere else) conspicuously acknowledge and confront that (… and relate it to its parallels in sympathetic and parasympathetic ‘burnout’ …or to its parallels in Basedowoid and Addisinoid overtraining,… etc.). They never address Why - for most traders at that ‘voice of trading’ cusp or level discussed above - what is statistically ‘good’ performance at, for instance, a 60% hit rate with well controlled losses will NEVER be ‘enough’ subjectively - no matter how many or what kind of freakin ‘coaches’ they have. I know for dam sure it was not enough for me - which is why long ago I went 'innovative' full bore for 5 years demanding 80% ++ hit rates from all but a few systems in my portfolio of systems. Jmo’s SUIYA… but, all in all, the content of that first link is dated rehashing of bullshit hypnosis. The “large guys” are NOT discovering / “stumbling across” ‘coaching performance (back) up’. ‘Coachy’ approaches are faddish, sparodic, and attractive to only a small sample of managers. … and the academic shills paid by the scientific ‘dictatorship’ run by pharmaceutical corporations, etc. to prefix “neuro” in front of everything* and ‘study’ things like “find correlations between, for example, a steady heart rate and astute investment decisions” [from link in OP] . OMG! a steady heart rate is NOT where it’s at! Rapid recovery from elevated ‘heart rate’, etc IS closing on where it’s at! … and btw I have also yet to see a trading coach who would throttle back emphasis on ‘mental fixes’ and ‘progress’ to preserve ‘flow’ - which is really where it IS at! (… and OMG! “investment decisions” from somewhere in OP link are NOT “trading decisions”… ) … and jmo there is “ ‘smart money’ out there looking to screw you “ - they are the top 3 % ‘pareto’ who strive to ‘monopolize’ ( that term taken from the article linked to in your most recent post... that is actually about businesses, not individual performance workers …) :helloooo: Sorry I don’t have time to be ‘sweet’ and ‘supportive’ right now… We now return you to your regularly scheduled ‘disorderly dismount’ zdo *bannabl offnsz “Neuro-______ seems to provide not only a desperate ultimate attempt at being original in science where everything has been said and done, but, morover [sic], a guaranty of attracting attention and simulating importance.” The Neurocritic: The use and abuse of the prefix neuro- in the decades of the BRAIN ( The Neurocritic: NeuroPsychoEconomics! Neurocoaching? | Melancholia and The Infinite Neurocritic The Neurocritic: Journomarketing of Neurobollocks )

Hi SUIYA and all, ...at the risk of getting banned, here is something peripherally related to the 'coachiness' of trading... it's also somewhat related to the social ewave of participation rates in trading (and in forums, etc) I've discussed elsewhere http://www.fooledbyrandomness.com/spurioustail.pdf

... the "Laws" of Wyc... were they based in pre-Newtonian assumptions? ... then transferred over to a midbrain people thang ? Question yourself above all others... and regarding others “Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.” – Andre Gide