zdo

quick little break time from the chart 'technicals' and crowd 'sentimentals'... It's advisable to crinkle your foil hat securely around your whole cranial region before reading... suspends the trance Then please be on the watch out for treacherous ideas within A Salvo in the Battle for the Gold Standard | Zero Hedge We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming

“…The serious artist is the only person able to encounter technology with impunity just because he is an expert aware of the changes in sense perception… ” M. McLuhan http:/CNBC.com/desperate-charts-suggest-sub- $1000-Gold-is-likely/ Thank you CNBC, suntrust, and BobcTwns for the great and helpful explanations. You are the best lab partners EVER! Now we understand. It really is best to be one of the entranced apathetics who swallow anything. no promotions and links (we will monitor all threads) http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/search.php?searchid=982824

“…The serious artist is the only person able to encounter technology with impunity just because he is an expert aware of the changes in sense perception… ” M. McLuhan

... primarily for the benefit of chart noobs ... Re: “Desperate are those searching for why when the chart tells why/when/how.” Charts are one possible way of representing bhvr of human ‘crowds’ ... and whether we like to acknowledge it or not, there is always a “why”. The bhvr of human ‘crowds’ is the central “why”. For the chart technician, it’s the only necessary “why”. ‘ Voice of trading’ chartist proponents as a rule unconsciously guide noobs into developing an illusion that there are no ‘whys’ to be aware of ...by sending the brains to focus on the chart instead of the human bhvrs that generate the basis for charts and other visual representations... Point is: that way is good only for a few - and not the many as some chartists would have us blve... ... Since no good explanation for the use of the term “desperate” seems to be forthcoming let me go a little further and partially explain why I questioned its use. ‘Technically’*, there is often not much fight in herded bulls after the near parabolic, narrative based run-up like in late Jan. Not much fight means they can’t generate very much to be “desperate” about. So, pricechartwise, those blue horizontal lines mark/provide no more possible ‘support’ than jet vapor trails in the sky would... etc. The strong handed bulls don’t even have to be ‘concerned’ until the 1160’s... Permabulls are in physicals and are hedging with papergold, etc. etc... ... in quick summary, very few bulls are “desperate” at this time - so the use of the term is questionable and could just be possible unnecessary spin** ...etc etc. * and by god I’m using that ‘Technically’ term loosely - since we’re making “desperation” and “disappointed’, ’concerned’ etc. into ‘technical’ / chart terms ... ** ...and yes, some things could be said about spinning this kind of ‘CNBCese speaky’ into our posts - but we certainly can’t single out just SunBurst on this because we’re all guilty of it at one time or another ...and via the ‘internet’ that would just be pickin a fight. The purpose is not to condemn “shorthand” either... look what damppenguin has to do to avoid it. See http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/wyckoff-forum/19107-trading-sla-amt-intraday-5.html#post196677 The purpose of my posts is to question questionable “shorthand”. So, for the benefit of the noobs, an explanation of “desperate” would still be appreciated

nhn. You are joking us, right? Many traders love trading to death and can’t make a go of it. In a tennis league I play in you can tell which guys love the game the most... but it does not make them the winners. A ‘love’ for trading is definitely a necessity for sticking in there through thick and thin... but everything will not fall in place just because one ‘loves’ it.

That's a good answer - to a different question. So "Desperately tried to hold support" becomes "Searching for why tried to hold support" ?? "More self evident desperation by bulls to hold 1203-1200 zone" becomes "More self evident searching for why by bulls to hold 1203-1200 zone" ?? Question remains - Where is the "desperate" on those charts? Would not have questioned the use of milder "technical" /"chart" terms to insert some extra "why" into the posts... like for example '(It) disappointedly tried... ' and '...self evident disappointment' ...

The papergold this thread is about is currently way hooked up with JPY... ie (for any ‘plain speak challenged’ readers) it’s “highly correlated” . So, what is “desperate market” about that? Or How many more “desperate players” ( weak hands, etc.) are "desperate" than usual ? ... and Who in their right mind wants it to stay so high anyways? ...real bulls want it lower. ... the lower the better... ... and for the real bears, Martin Armstrong is back (and what did not kill him made him stronger) so relicgold at $285 is inevitable ... ...So, Sun, I still think an explanation of the word “desperation” would be helpful. (Without explanation it might be taken a new technical term defined as support provided by horizontal trend lines that deliver the same quality of support as jet vapor trails to start with ...? etc ? etc.?) Thx ...and jmo BobC, papergold as a rule could not care less about who is “hoarding” gold. ... and more jmo, papergold doesn’t care quite enough even about who is lending or borrowing gold...

Traders need to make clear and functional demarcations for themselves on the difference btwn risk and exposure. And - yes it is sad that this event is the only way some get the opportunity to learn the difference between Risk and Exposure. Especially where ANY degree of leverage is involved, this is an important lesson to learn ... regardless of how you learn it... by painfully experiencing the difference real time or learning enough from studying and watching others and conceptualizing a functional lesson. Risk is the probability, the chance that an event or situation will transpire that would lead to a loss or an undesired outcome. Exposure is the extent to which the outcome at risk can have an effect. The ‘voice of trading’ is weak and virtually silent on Exposure. The typical first grader in ‘trading schrooall’ is served pabulum like “limit you risk by using stops” and “only risk 3% of your account in each position” and that’s about it. Most traders “meme - in” and functionally comingle risk and exposure inside their heads instead of working a VERY SHARP distinction btwn the two Most of the traders out there who are in this purgatory situation with their brokerages... and also most of the traders who are setting themselves up to be one of the next casualties of the currency wars are fully brainwashed keynesian cargo kids who have yet to even conceptualize even a wish for an alternative to the ‘archy’. And ...Ultimately it’s such BigPicture mistakes/delusions that lead to and sustain these SmallPicture ... likeThinking your stop delimits your exposure, etc... mistakes/delusions ... and end up “ not had a clear situation upon their trading account. most still stuck awaiting from their brokers decision, wether they will able to withdrawn their money or not. ” .. ie still blaming the market and / or the SNB and / or their broker ... instead of learning to work a VERY SHARP distinction btwn the two and being grateful for the lesson... ...and fwiw, PRAX, I do feel for you bro ...

ritika1124, Welcome aboard. I see you got your Golden C... what are you selling to your "Great to here friends"? I hope you have started off with a real account and not straight to a pretend one. Real account helps you learn a lot.

SunTrust, "Desperately" ? Please explain the "Desperately" part for us. Thx zdo

What's really sad is that TL members posted almost 1190 posts working on this topic and the whole time it could have been handled with just that one formula ... thx o3!

For those few ‘samples of one’ who might want to cut through the rampaging ‘voice of trading’ A trade is not an investment An investment is not a trade. Mark as trades the transactions for which you have no control over the outcomes besides your exit // beyond unwinding the position at a profit or loss Mark as investments the transactions you make which include the possibility to materially participate in creating the desired outcomes and those that you make a concomitant commitment to do just that. Make and crystalize that distinction for yourself. It helps.

Dear Mr Dove, I do not have the good sense to modulate my exposure to possible outliers. I also do not have the resolve needed to 'hedge' my own funds. Please do it for me because I believe you and your firm are among that tiniest minority of fund managers who can maintain near perfect hedges day in and day out year after year. Please find check enclosed. Also, please sign me up for your exciting upcoming pilot program that actually credits traders’ accounts a small amount each time they close a losing trade . Thank you. T.L. Investradconfuzd

dream on // good luck. ... will disappear quickly... only a tiny few largest accounts are protected ... and even they aren't really protected

Can you delegate a right that you don’t have? I celebrate that markets can be manipulated. And Traders who are not ready to accept this 'exchange' and 'broker' category of the risks involved in trading should simply find other avenues ... and certainly not opine about or beg for 'fairness' (warning ! Watch out - here comes a run of content that may not seem connected. It is!) If you think the NFA is going to protect you from crooked or mismanaged brokers think again! Can you delegate a right that you don’t have? ultimately any and all regulations serve the people they were originally intended to serve for only a brief time. Then, regulations adds to and compounds corruption rather than ameliorating it. (C’mon people ... the quickenings are coming... keep up ! ... make the leaps...) To trust people who are ultimately not trustworthy in agencies that, to put it mildly, serve purposes that they were not ‘chartered’ to serve is a mistake. Trust of state, in ANY of the ‘political’ forms it can take, is a mistake. Mass acceptance of state = Mass trust of state = a mistake ... flimsy “omg! otherwise chaos would erupt” arguments/fears notwithstanding. The mistake leads - quickly or slowly - to attempts at centralized management ... resulting in oppression, exploitation of the responsible, the productive, the ‘voters’ who accept state... fkn Greece is the distraction of the week ... see Does Anyone Remember 2007? The Global Debt Bubble In 3 Ominous Charts | Zero Hedge ‘they’ are now reaching peak ‘rob the unborn’/ steal from those that can’t ‘vote’ for ~ 25yrs into the future, etc. They must now come for current wealth - your pension, your property, your... - by bail-ins... then at the point of a gun... ... all kinds of dark sht happens and even things that are feared become blessings ... The Beauty of Deflation | ... Basically - Our markets are best left anarchic. Can you delegate a right that you don’t have? :missy:

Got a few more minutes for parallels The bold in that last sentence is to harken you all back to my encouragements across time in this ‘forum’ that traders who would really thrive need to start at restoring body flow - and not start or even include any fkn trading ‘psychology’ bs. Although only 1 in 1000 who read this will blve it - this "compares"! in trading ... Something as subtle as eye positioning affects a trade...hth the Parallel in that last paragraph = ‘voice of trading’... yada yada Ya’ll have fun Silicon Valley Has Lost Its Way. Can Skateboarding Legend Rodney Mullen Help It? | WIRED zdo

Our counterparts in rus, etc. are getting hosed in many ways these days in the curr wars... hey - what goes around, comes around ... Btw - For the idiots (in any ‘jurisdiction’) who find 1:50 ++ leverage is not 'enough' Let them eat UltraCoin :rofl:

It is comforting for me ... to know that it is possible ... and that 'it' is routine...

As our luck would have it, analogues to various aspects of trading can be found in almost ALL games and gaming. Monopoly, surfing, poker, sailing, stratego, martial ‘arts’, roulette, auctions, dot dot dot ... even this silly list is still applicable... The ‘virtues’, traits and strengths needed for all the games and gaming that have emphasis on skills for the outcomes are very similar to the ‘virtues’, traits and strengths, etc. that mark high level performance in trading. Mastering the management of sizing, exposure, risk, etc - is necessary for all the games and gaming that have emphasis on random (- like) outcomes... it’s an absolute requisite to exquisitely master similar ‘MM’* skills to have any chance of thriving at trading. You can tell a lot about yourself and where you are at in your development as a trader by the ‘metaphors’ that emerge from your mind (with a charge on them). Fwiw, on the spontaneous list above, poker and martial arts were the only two that that I had ever considered before... and at various points in time they did have a ‘charge’ for me... until I learned to KILL THE METAPHORs !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! * (the misleading ‘voice of trading’ term for it)

SIUYA, Thank you for speaking for tradelab, but you only answered five of the questions. What's up with that?

s'not "fairtrade"

Again - WHO determines if the trade is fair? Who does the "To improve... " ? Who does the "To raise awareness ... " ? Who does the "To set an example ... " ? Who does the "To campaign ... " ? Who does the "To protect ... " ?

So WHO determines if the trade is fair?

Results <> 95%. A few (~18% imo) can survive. A tiny few (1-3%) will thrive. It’s system-dependent. It’s trader dependent. Think of like this ... Actuary-ly, it is highly improbable that one will make a fortune (or even a good living) as a buyer of insurance policies (unless you have the kahoons to be an arsonist ). With options, sans reliable and enduring inside info, it’s tough to consistently and safely project the ETA of swans (of any color) over and over... just ask Taleb Learning how to sell premium is no small feat either... requires authentic and serious Actuary-ly. Most can’t even keep up with the greeks ... so have very slim chance of getting up even with greeks enough to learn how to manipulate and capitalize on them... Contrary to the ‘risk is limited to premium paid’ voice of trading promotion memes, a more helpful, but absent, guideline would be - it takes rather massive levels of capital to buy or to sell premium successfully... Capital that for most could be similarly leveraged elsewhere for better and more stable returns ... Ie for most people option trading is ‘pushing a string’ (with the 'psychological' 'benefits'... that) Statistically, options trading is a way to modulate the rapidity of the ultimate results - typically allows (the appearance of, at least of) a medium burn rate and dodges the alternatives - death by a thousand tiny ‘burns’ or a meteoric “sudden unexpected disassembly”. hth