zdo

Sounds like a fun association - but I only saw a few minutes of that film ...decades ago. You'd have to fill us in a little bit more Thx zdo

btw to help you decide whether to give any credence to what I’m saying 1) I do not agree with the proposed “two possible solutions to the problem of limited rationality” in the 'bounded unbounded' article. 2) I don’t think you have to study the market to see how it works. You already know. But- you may need to clear blocked flow to get at it. 3) I don’t think you have to develop a trading plan / style. I think you already have one built in ... you just need to remove blocked flow in the body/brains to get at it.

"What is the Most Common Investors Mistake? smart ast answer = not knowing the difference between trading and investing. "What is the Most Common Investors Mistake?" sincere ast answer ( in a traders lab btw ) = the setups / your setups go something like... http://www.advisorperspectives.com/articles/2015/03/17/bounded-rationality-unbounded-confidence the react / your react leads to the BIGGEST MISTRAKE which = holding large losses! After all that crap in the setup above gets you into jangled – the brain becomes more risk seeking with losses than it is with gains. Without intervention, you will tend to liquidate your winners and hold your losers. That loss you’re holding or that loss you are at risk of slipping into any day now – The market may never go back to breakeven for you in the rest of your trading career! I know from shorting big contracts in the 80’s in 'down trends'. You may think you are protected by a trading system – you’re not! Let advice about holding large losses sink in. ie ‘Learn from the mistakes of others – life’s to short to learn them all by yourself’ Have a personal plan in place that handles all the contingencies. Again - in psychobabble - it goes like this ... At some point in the setup above you pass a threshold and without intervention, you will tend to liquidate your winners and hold your losers... your brains become more risk seeking with losses than they are with gains. A position in the red is not a danger signal. Doubt is not a danger signal. But - A position in the red + hope + pain is an extreme danger signal of imminent and lasting financial, mental, and emotional damage – regardless of the position’s outcome. Learn from others' experiences – at the first tinge of hope or wishing, set a point and if it goes there, get out. Your system should be robust enough to get you back in if the market comes roaring back your way. And if the market doesn’t go to that drop dead point and it comes roaring back your way, don’t let that teach you the wrong lesson. For someone out there, this thread was no accident. We don’t know who you are but you will know who you are… Humbly, zdo PS : You are correct! There is no good place for a stop in your system. However, even though there is never a good spot to place a stop - there is still always a good spot to take a loss!

"sell the rallies" and don't "buy the dips" and whatever you do, for sure do not accumulate physical PM's ! ... It was said "PM's are a hedge against political insanity" ... things have NEVER been more pliant, adaptive, sane and functional than now... PM's are a useless relic... cash can not be made illegal... cash can not be removed from circulation... a dollar's value is certain...

The dollar is more and more precious to billions and billions of people. To you ? ... just a thought or two... All those new paper shorts do have to cover sooner or later... All it takes is a swan (of any color) for PM's to 'bounce' ... and the tiniest bounce would force almost all those newest paper shorts to cover immediately... (rather than meet m calls...) After that, of course, PM's could resume their deflationary work... :missy:

Preface: This will be discouragement to most... encouragement to only a few (who don’t even need encouragement...) Of course it’s possible to get rich "by stock trading". The real question is does the person have the talent and the drive to develop the talent? Like - is it possible to get rich playing tennis? Of course it is. But what percentage of players do get rich? About the same percentage as ‘stock’ traders who get rich. Those who do get rich shine several levels above average in handling AND creating spin AND speed. And btw, tennis players have the luxury of only needing the master spin on one object. Traders who get rich need to be able to master the timing of multiple, simultaneous spins, etc etc. And like in tennis - where if you are performing at high levels you have to learn to anticipate and setup and begin your swing with an almost reckless ‘wild throw’ manner - way before the ball arrives - to get rich in trading you must LEAD... If you follow you get creamed sooner or later (...and if you don’t lead well, you get creamed even sooner :rofl: ) Of course not. This is relevant to the speed part discussed above compounded by the distribution of 'outliers' who succeed. Form breaks down as speed increases, and considering most traders don’t have solid AND adaptable form / technique to begin with, they fck up early instead of being able to stay in multiple ‘long rallies’ all day long. Fwiw - Those who are attempting to day trade do recognize that it pays to multiply your opportunities...it pays to keep your capital optimally allocated. Only a tiny few recognize all the other factors... One could make similar comparisons with other games besides tennis... Study any ‘performance work’. Adults who take on developing a new mastery typically make the mistake of going for technique first. And, you’ll find the ‘contributed education’ (from the worst and the best) ‘voice of trading’ advice herein continuously shapes starting at method, system, technique. It is my position that beginning traders need to develop physical and neuronal flow first so they will have ‘clarity of perception’ from which to choose which forms and methods are most suited to them individually, and rapidly get those things up to ‘unconscious competence’ - so they can start focusing on the other factors needed to ’get rich’ ... hth (hope this hurts )

suggestion As a template or starting place for indicator to notify you when your conditions are met (bull trap close and PDH trap in your case) Insert a “save as” of the sample indicator (included in TS) named Day or Session High Low Line and modify code to your needs. hth

for snicks ... Yen vs Gold - The Extreme Trade "When debtors go broke, so do mercantilist exporters"

...been vacationing/gone almost six weeks, still it is extremely easy to catch up with this thread. That word “invest”. They keep throwing the word. Do we have a whole generation ‘coming up’ that does not have a clue what ‘investing’ actually is? ... Symptomatic of deeper, more profound cyclical ‘financial’ dysfunction? ................................................ ... :crap: bobsee and sunnyd, Even you two bozo’s deserve * better answers than you got... ................................................................................ Be aware, gold has been “at very critical point where it needs to make a break” before ... and could again stay there for 10 years or more :spam: just sayin... * http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/market-analysis/12054-gold-bullish-bearish-196.html#post196687

more ... don’t read if you want to stay ignorant... The New Deal built the New World Order and btw wtf does this have to do with a gold thread? more... 53 ADMITTED False Flag Attacks Washington's Blog more... ?Cash Is Coined Freedom?: War on Cash Becomes Official in Germany, Reaches G-7, Draws Withering Fire | Wolf Street we now return you to your regularly scheduled programming of 'price action' driving gold much lower please and thank you...

Just in case you wanted to remain ignorant... The Secretive Bank of England There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact. – Arthur Conan Doyle we now return to our regularly scheduled programming...mucho supply etc...

Talent is a long patience, and originality an effort of will and intense observation. – Gustave Flaubert

Dalai Llama: “You’re perfect as you are, and you need a lot of improvement.” DB, Do you know Eldadand what he’s doing or something? Nothing in his post indicates (pun intended) that he is an indicator junkie or trades fx... suspicion cloud --- when the ‘voice of trading’ tells you to learn how “how markets work”, it is usually the equivalent of someone telling you need to get to "know god"...stick around and they will soon be telling you the one way to god. Stick around and the voice of trading will soon ‘imply’ one objective window to “Learn how markets work.” It’s ok. See it for what it is. It is the 'voice of trading’s' stated job to try to get you from the loser ‘pareto’ into the surviving/profitable ‘pareto’. “The only fight that cannot be won is the fight in which the enemy makes all the rules and you foolishly abide by those rules.” B. Smith Unfortunately the ‘voice of trading’ is at once trying to help you move into the ‘surviving’ pareto and simultaneously and unconsciously attempting to keep you down by tricking you into defeating yourself “One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision” bertrand russell Confucius say “Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance” So more accurate than “Learn how markets work” would be learn what is YOUR window on how the markets work. We are all on a wheel looking at a center. Another trader's perspective may be a few degrees around the wheel from yours, or it may be 30, 60, 90... 180 degrees. The point is he can never really know what you know about "how markets work". You can never know what he knows about "how markets work", Nor does it matter. Learning “how markets work.” at someone else's window on the wheel can go either way. It can be helpful. It can be harmful. I always tell people to stay at their own window long ... long enough to really know what other windows/angles would be helpful ... then go seek teacher. Eldad, I can’t tell from the content of your post whether you need to learn more of “how markets work”. Maybe you do need to learn a lot more. Maybe you even need to learn DB’s “knockoff” of Wycoff. Seriously... I could go on...but will sum and move on... basically It is far better to imperfectly train at your own level with proper form than to perfectly train someone else’s level with improper form. ... Moving on --- imho, trying to do more of the same - in this case doing more “how markets work” will just strengthen your current structural conflict and ratchet up your compensations. I can tell from the content of your post that until you get your bodybrains straightened out, you are in too much ‘bad’ stress to really learn and thrive. In fact, important zones of your brains are 'shrinking'. This chronic stress makes stem cells in the hippocampus mature into another type of glial cell called an oligodendrocyte, which produces the myelin that sheaths nerve cells, instead of maturing into neurons, etc... = long term diminished capacities, etc. In the long run, you would be better off spending much of your time and energy understanding things like the ‘attachment’ style you brought out of childhood... a style that served you well enough in previous endeavors in life... but now interferes with the deep how’s, not the whethers, of your ‘winning’ and ‘losing’ in trading like having pieces of rebar going through your head would ... and, btw, finding a ‘therapist’ who understands ‘attachment’ at this level will be a fck of a task, but in my humble opinion, that would be important part of the straightest path to getting back on track to the neuroplasticity, eustress, and the level of complexity you need to bring to whatever you do in life. Then you will have the power to work in the areas of your “how the market works” that are stuck/ ‘fixed’ and make them dynamic and adaptive to changing mkt conditions / auctions ... … and May I suggest questioning those boxing parallels ---- warriors do not make great traders! While traders do require their own set of virtues, they are different from the virtues that make for greatness in a warrior... “When you have exhausted all of your potential growth, just remember: you haven’t” paraphrasing S. Sonnon. hth

The common thread running through all my (mostly off topic) posts re PM’s = Gold is best seen as a wealth preservation hedge against depreciation of your other ‘money’ and as nothing else. It becomes ignernt look at it as an investment...or be highly ‘price sensitive’... or even consider it a reliable trading instrument (as most of the time, there are other trading instruments that are providing more bang for the buck) If you start accumulating real PM’s early enough in life, then ultimately you’ll find yourself learning to ratio trade gold v silver... and As you accumulate more, you must learn to trade paper PM's... via hedging in derivatives... typically it's best to use methods that are ‘slow’ to get in and also slow to get out. Personally I lean towards more itchy to get in and out, but that is mostly from being present at a trading station 2 - 6 hours daily. When I’m not around - like in June most years - methods revert to less sensitive resting orders for lifting shorts, etc... All the best, zdo

MM We must be careful of over generalizing re: Supply (and Demand). There is supply of real gold ... and then There is supply of paper gold These days it’s best not to fuse them... best to see them as two separate instruments just sayin... proFXtraderSomething may be wrong with my thinking ... Yes ultimately the USD is a ‘fiaty’ currency and will fail. But I question the timing of the long running death meme of USD that comes from the alt financial ‘press’. I don’t see the new Chinese ‘bank’, etc as being much of a threat to the USD Hegemony - esp in terms of exchange rates. Along the way, I even see the possibility that gold could be ‘Strong’ AND the dollar could be ‘Strong’ simultaneously. HowThFk could that be? bobseytwinz Keynes... While I would certainly agree with Mises more than I would Keynes, if you came into the Austrian camp looking for me, it’s not likely you’d find me unless I just happened to be visiting at the same time as you... and topics like whether or not Keynes was a socialist, etc or not are really not that important (and OMG you can have a whole dang internet argument about such “whethers”... google will provide you with enough misleading propaganda for a month). The pivot is that he was a ‘Statist’ ( govts “owned by the people” haha (socialists, etc.) or govt ‘owned by the bankers’ haha (fascism, oligarchs, etc - both are Statist) ... Yet his book, The General Theory of Employment, Interest and Money was an instant success with both socialists and governments around the world—the latter, because his new “economic principles” stated that governments should control the monetary system—full stop. That was music to their ears, and most governments have been devotees ever since. And while Keynes himself would not advocate what a lot of “Keynsians” view as proper policy today - still he treated economics as a ‘philosophy’, not a science and, as a ‘statist’, the truth was irrelevant; all that mattered was the objective. The sad truth - Mises was also a Statist... and his work would ultimately be corrupted to the objectives of stygian oligarchs. etc etc. More salient to your gold is the current ‘trend’ stretching the central banks’ mandates to the next step - to a global money ... An anarch...

pro4X, I was being facetious... This trader loves to see instruments driven way below their cost of production...I like "desperation" ( btw not the 'desperation-lite' the way the word has become a new technical term in here recently ) gold is a commodity AND it is money. Moneys have varying qualities. Gold is high(est) quality money, with very stable purchasing power, etc, etc... to the point where when I look at a chart anymore I don't see it in terms of gold moving around in terms of dollars, I see it as your dollars goin' up and down...changing in 'value'. Basically, the PM's aren't going anywhere. It's the debt moneys that are flipping about... :missy: charles hugh smith-The Rehypothecation of Gold, and Why It Matters and taking a sharp Fri afternoon turn... http://www.acting-man.com/?p=36914 Louisiana bans using cash in sales of second-hand goods Question of the day: If it’s not well hidden, do you actually ‘have’ any money at all? (to the NSA and whatever statist agencies you feed this info to, we hope your scrapers note the wink smiley at the end of that post...:rofl: ) we now return you to your regularly scheduled Keynesian programming

Have you looked at TradeStation? It's not necessarily "easy" (for everyone) - but it still may be the "easiest" way to prototype simple strategies hth

These are some stupid people. Why can’t they be like us and think gold is just another commodity that is only worth 500 precious USD per oz.? Stupid people in India think the stuff is valuable too. Why? We now return you to your regularly scheduled Keynesian programming.

snot "When the facts change, find new facts!"

"... the human spirit will not invest in compromise." Robert Fritz

kid, It is possible to know the past directions of any given market by observation. Further, we can impute/assign symbolic descriptions to past direction with terms like “trend”, etc. These are semantic tricks we can play on ourselves for comfort… tricks that unfortunately end up ruling/ruining many traders. It is NOT possible to know the future direction “of any given market”... The biology of human life on earth is a sufficiently ‘quantum’ biology to create in markets what is in effect a quantum superposition whose direction cannot be known beforehand. One way of looking at it is: The universe of humans have an unconscious estimation of the where relative ‘value’ should be/go. Only a tiny sample of them express their unconscious estimation with actual participation in ”any given market”. So, the active participants can appear to be ‘powerful’ ‘influential’ ‘controlling’… and / or ‘predictable’. But they aren’t. They always remain extremely mutable and well within the unknowable ‘fields of influence’ of the universal ‘valuation’. … In another way of looking at it: The dominant ‘narrative’ can collapse at any moment… etc. etc. Another way of looking at it: :rofl:… http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-04-09/i%E2%80%99m-first-say-i-can%E2%80%99t-do-it-energy-junk-bond-implosion-just-claimed-its-first-victim ... the market is full of followers... few leaders with staying power... Future prices of a market are not ‘knowable’. You can, however, assign probabilities to the direction of ‘next’ transactions via a number of methods and techniques. More importantly, you can also learn to recognize market conditions where such assignment of probabilities has better odds of being successful. Such work never really gets easier. But you can get better at it. A typical error is mentally conflating what in reality can only be an assignment of probability with a self delusional ‘knowing’ what the future direction “of any given market” will be. ...This has a lot to do with the habitual, ‘normal’ states one brings to trading from past non trading experiences ... involves the threshold of certainty one consistently needs before repeatedly taking live positions with real risks and exposures , etc, etc. Variations in ... attachments(and lack thereof), fears (and lack thereof), etc., etc. The ‘voice of trading’ calls breaking this conflation “probability thinking”. Mark Douglas addressed it directly in his books and presentations. Rande Howell discusses it in some depth in his threads and posts on this site... and would likely be open to further discussion. Also see Kahneman's book, …fast slow… If your question was meant something more like “what techniques can show know the future direction of any given market?” The only way you can go wrong with any of them - Elliott-like, Gann-like, Wyckoff-like, etc etc... cycle duration projections, astro, ...etc etc etc, - is to force yourself into methods that are incompatible with your own true nature. But I like the original, but admittedly less practical, answer much better ... ie ... Much of technical analysis resorts to clever use of wet ware geometry (eyeball regressions at the cost of ever ‘solving’ the larger system - which is yourself.) Much of ‘fundamental’ analysis resorts to clever use of wet ware algebra ( valuations at the cost of ever ‘solving’ the larger system - which is yourself.) Much of ‘sentiment’/narrative analysis resorts to clever use of wet ware reflexivity (projections at the cost of ever ‘solving’ the larger system - which is yourself.) "'tis an ill wind that blows no minds". - Syadasti

Clearly written... and it makes a lot of sense When you don’t know who you really are, you remain unconsciously trapped in a false fight with basically being who your brains think the “somebody else meme wants you to be”. Thoughts and beliefs are ‘given’ to you... performance workers - which traders are - doing typical ‘know thyself work tend to fall into comparison traps... activities like seeking (and reseeking... and reseeking...) character references from themselves, etc... perennials cycle of a waxing inner Dunning–Kruger effect...then a sudden, unexpected enanthropic waning... a rushing to the opposite extreme ... When you ‘know thyself’, all that stuff is dropped ... simply unnecessary. When you really ‘know thyself’, your experience - but not necessarily your expressions - arise via ‘thou art that’.

charith, Turn the status of all Analysis Techniques off before changing / formatting the Symbol to DIA in that chart. Selectively turn them back on to find 'offender' Why aren't you using TS support forum? http://www.livescience.com/50248-children-autism-gi-symptoms.html

minoo, I really appreciate your intention ( which is obviously not coming from the soul-sucking vortex of the internet where ‘know-it-alls’ and contrarians find their miserable home ) but - ‘know thyself’ and ‘flow thyself’ really are distinctively different topics... ...unfortunately, to ‘know thyself’ provides no assurance of ‘flow thyself’... etc. For the few - I long ago pretty much abandoned this thread because the ‘flow thyself’ discussion was being taken in the direction of Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi flow, to whom flow is almost strictly a psychological phenomenon attained via seligman type, etc. psychological ‘activities’. Such stuff may be an ok way to study and explore and describe facets of ‘flow’ - but without the prerequisite body work to clear bound flow, any application of Mihaly stuff will fail. Ie From the currently dominant paradigms best epitomized by Mihaly - flow may episodically sprout, but it will not take root. In case you’re not aware, there is a companion Know Thyself thread where that post and any others like it you find would help others be " more rooted in [their] system and self." All the best, zdo

:helloooo: "investing" There’s that word again gold is never a good investment it is only rarely even among the best trades its best purpose is as a (relatively) physically secure, easily transact able, etc. etc. store of (un-invested) wealth :spam: You Think You're An Investor? I Think Not | Zero Hedge