zdo

for snicks ... Yen vs Gold - The Extreme Trade "When debtors go broke, so do mercantilist exporters"

...been vacationing/gone almost six weeks, still it is extremely easy to catch up with this thread. That word “invest”. They keep throwing the word. Do we have a whole generation ‘coming up’ that does not have a clue what ‘investing’ actually is? ... Symptomatic of deeper, more profound cyclical ‘financial’ dysfunction? ................................................ ... :crap: bobsee and sunnyd, Even you two bozo’s deserve * better answers than you got... ................................................................................ Be aware, gold has been “at very critical point where it needs to make a break” before ... and could again stay there for 10 years or more :spam: just sayin... * http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/market-analysis/12054-gold-bullish-bearish-196.html#post196687

more ... don’t read if you want to stay ignorant... The New Deal built the New World Order and btw wtf does this have to do with a gold thread? more... 53 ADMITTED False Flag Attacks Washington's Blog more... ?Cash Is Coined Freedom?: War on Cash Becomes Official in Germany, Reaches G-7, Draws Withering Fire | Wolf Street we now return you to your regularly scheduled programming of 'price action' driving gold much lower please and thank you...

Just in case you wanted to remain ignorant... The Secretive Bank of England There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact. – Arthur Conan Doyle we now return to our regularly scheduled programming...mucho supply etc...

Talent is a long patience, and originality an effort of will and intense observation. – Gustave Flaubert

Dalai Llama: “You’re perfect as you are, and you need a lot of improvement.” DB, Do you know Eldadand what he’s doing or something? Nothing in his post indicates (pun intended) that he is an indicator junkie or trades fx... suspicion cloud --- when the ‘voice of trading’ tells you to learn how “how markets work”, it is usually the equivalent of someone telling you need to get to "know god"...stick around and they will soon be telling you the one way to god. Stick around and the voice of trading will soon ‘imply’ one objective window to “Learn how markets work.” It’s ok. See it for what it is. It is the 'voice of trading’s' stated job to try to get you from the loser ‘pareto’ into the surviving/profitable ‘pareto’. “The only fight that cannot be won is the fight in which the enemy makes all the rules and you foolishly abide by those rules.” B. Smith Unfortunately the ‘voice of trading’ is at once trying to help you move into the ‘surviving’ pareto and simultaneously and unconsciously attempting to keep you down by tricking you into defeating yourself “One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision” bertrand russell Confucius say “Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance” So more accurate than “Learn how markets work” would be learn what is YOUR window on how the markets work. We are all on a wheel looking at a center. Another trader's perspective may be a few degrees around the wheel from yours, or it may be 30, 60, 90... 180 degrees. The point is he can never really know what you know about "how markets work". You can never know what he knows about "how markets work", Nor does it matter. Learning “how markets work.” at someone else's window on the wheel can go either way. It can be helpful. It can be harmful. I always tell people to stay at their own window long ... long enough to really know what other windows/angles would be helpful ... then go seek teacher. Eldad, I can’t tell from the content of your post whether you need to learn more of “how markets work”. Maybe you do need to learn a lot more. Maybe you even need to learn DB’s “knockoff” of Wycoff. Seriously... I could go on...but will sum and move on... basically It is far better to imperfectly train at your own level with proper form than to perfectly train someone else’s level with improper form. ... Moving on --- imho, trying to do more of the same - in this case doing more “how markets work” will just strengthen your current structural conflict and ratchet up your compensations. I can tell from the content of your post that until you get your bodybrains straightened out, you are in too much ‘bad’ stress to really learn and thrive. In fact, important zones of your brains are 'shrinking'. This chronic stress makes stem cells in the hippocampus mature into another type of glial cell called an oligodendrocyte, which produces the myelin that sheaths nerve cells, instead of maturing into neurons, etc... = long term diminished capacities, etc. In the long run, you would be better off spending much of your time and energy understanding things like the ‘attachment’ style you brought out of childhood... a style that served you well enough in previous endeavors in life... but now interferes with the deep how’s, not the whethers, of your ‘winning’ and ‘losing’ in trading like having pieces of rebar going through your head would ... and, btw, finding a ‘therapist’ who understands ‘attachment’ at this level will be a fck of a task, but in my humble opinion, that would be important part of the straightest path to getting back on track to the neuroplasticity, eustress, and the level of complexity you need to bring to whatever you do in life. Then you will have the power to work in the areas of your “how the market works” that are stuck/ ‘fixed’ and make them dynamic and adaptive to changing mkt conditions / auctions ... … and May I suggest questioning those boxing parallels ---- warriors do not make great traders! While traders do require their own set of virtues, they are different from the virtues that make for greatness in a warrior... “When you have exhausted all of your potential growth, just remember: you haven’t” paraphrasing S. Sonnon. hth

The common thread running through all my (mostly off topic) posts re PM’s = Gold is best seen as a wealth preservation hedge against depreciation of your other ‘money’ and as nothing else. It becomes ignernt look at it as an investment...or be highly ‘price sensitive’... or even consider it a reliable trading instrument (as most of the time, there are other trading instruments that are providing more bang for the buck) If you start accumulating real PM’s early enough in life, then ultimately you’ll find yourself learning to ratio trade gold v silver... and As you accumulate more, you must learn to trade paper PM's... via hedging in derivatives... typically it's best to use methods that are ‘slow’ to get in and also slow to get out. Personally I lean towards more itchy to get in and out, but that is mostly from being present at a trading station 2 - 6 hours daily. When I’m not around - like in June most years - methods revert to less sensitive resting orders for lifting shorts, etc... All the best, zdo

MM We must be careful of over generalizing re: Supply (and Demand). There is supply of real gold ... and then There is supply of paper gold These days it’s best not to fuse them... best to see them as two separate instruments just sayin... proFXtraderSomething may be wrong with my thinking ... Yes ultimately the USD is a ‘fiaty’ currency and will fail. But I question the timing of the long running death meme of USD that comes from the alt financial ‘press’. I don’t see the new Chinese ‘bank’, etc as being much of a threat to the USD Hegemony - esp in terms of exchange rates. Along the way, I even see the possibility that gold could be ‘Strong’ AND the dollar could be ‘Strong’ simultaneously. HowThFk could that be? bobseytwinz Keynes... While I would certainly agree with Mises more than I would Keynes, if you came into the Austrian camp looking for me, it’s not likely you’d find me unless I just happened to be visiting at the same time as you... and topics like whether or not Keynes was a socialist, etc or not are really not that important (and OMG you can have a whole dang internet argument about such “whethers”... google will provide you with enough misleading propaganda for a month). The pivot is that he was a ‘Statist’ ( govts “owned by the people” haha (socialists, etc.) or govt ‘owned by the bankers’ haha (fascism, oligarchs, etc - both are Statist) ... Yet his book, The General Theory of Employment, Interest and Money was an instant success with both socialists and governments around the world—the latter, because his new “economic principles” stated that governments should control the monetary system—full stop. That was music to their ears, and most governments have been devotees ever since. And while Keynes himself would not advocate what a lot of “Keynsians” view as proper policy today - still he treated economics as a ‘philosophy’, not a science and, as a ‘statist’, the truth was irrelevant; all that mattered was the objective. The sad truth - Mises was also a Statist... and his work would ultimately be corrupted to the objectives of stygian oligarchs. etc etc. More salient to your gold is the current ‘trend’ stretching the central banks’ mandates to the next step - to a global money ... An anarch...

pro4X, I was being facetious... This trader loves to see instruments driven way below their cost of production...I like "desperation" ( btw not the 'desperation-lite' the way the word has become a new technical term in here recently ) gold is a commodity AND it is money. Moneys have varying qualities. Gold is high(est) quality money, with very stable purchasing power, etc, etc... to the point where when I look at a chart anymore I don't see it in terms of gold moving around in terms of dollars, I see it as your dollars goin' up and down...changing in 'value'. Basically, the PM's aren't going anywhere. It's the debt moneys that are flipping about... :missy: charles hugh smith-The Rehypothecation of Gold, and Why It Matters and taking a sharp Fri afternoon turn... http://www.acting-man.com/?p=36914 Louisiana bans using cash in sales of second-hand goods Question of the day: If it’s not well hidden, do you actually ‘have’ any money at all? (to the NSA and whatever statist agencies you feed this info to, we hope your scrapers note the wink smiley at the end of that post...:rofl: ) we now return you to your regularly scheduled Keynesian programming

Have you looked at TradeStation? It's not necessarily "easy" (for everyone) - but it still may be the "easiest" way to prototype simple strategies hth

These are some stupid people. Why can’t they be like us and think gold is just another commodity that is only worth 500 precious USD per oz.? Stupid people in India think the stuff is valuable too. Why? We now return you to your regularly scheduled Keynesian programming.

snot "When the facts change, find new facts!"

"... the human spirit will not invest in compromise." Robert Fritz

kid, It is possible to know the past directions of any given market by observation. Further, we can impute/assign symbolic descriptions to past direction with terms like “trend”, etc. These are semantic tricks we can play on ourselves for comfort… tricks that unfortunately end up ruling/ruining many traders. It is NOT possible to know the future direction “of any given market”... The biology of human life on earth is a sufficiently ‘quantum’ biology to create in markets what is in effect a quantum superposition whose direction cannot be known beforehand. One way of looking at it is: The universe of humans have an unconscious estimation of the where relative ‘value’ should be/go. Only a tiny sample of them express their unconscious estimation with actual participation in ”any given market”. So, the active participants can appear to be ‘powerful’ ‘influential’ ‘controlling’… and / or ‘predictable’. But they aren’t. They always remain extremely mutable and well within the unknowable ‘fields of influence’ of the universal ‘valuation’. … In another way of looking at it: The dominant ‘narrative’ can collapse at any moment… etc. etc. Another way of looking at it: :rofl:… http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-04-09/i%E2%80%99m-first-say-i-can%E2%80%99t-do-it-energy-junk-bond-implosion-just-claimed-its-first-victim ... the market is full of followers... few leaders with staying power... Future prices of a market are not ‘knowable’. You can, however, assign probabilities to the direction of ‘next’ transactions via a number of methods and techniques. More importantly, you can also learn to recognize market conditions where such assignment of probabilities has better odds of being successful. Such work never really gets easier. But you can get better at it. A typical error is mentally conflating what in reality can only be an assignment of probability with a self delusional ‘knowing’ what the future direction “of any given market” will be. ...This has a lot to do with the habitual, ‘normal’ states one brings to trading from past non trading experiences ... involves the threshold of certainty one consistently needs before repeatedly taking live positions with real risks and exposures , etc, etc. Variations in ... attachments(and lack thereof), fears (and lack thereof), etc., etc. The ‘voice of trading’ calls breaking this conflation “probability thinking”. Mark Douglas addressed it directly in his books and presentations. Rande Howell discusses it in some depth in his threads and posts on this site... and would likely be open to further discussion. Also see Kahneman's book, …fast slow… If your question was meant something more like “what techniques can show know the future direction of any given market?” The only way you can go wrong with any of them - Elliott-like, Gann-like, Wyckoff-like, etc etc... cycle duration projections, astro, ...etc etc etc, - is to force yourself into methods that are incompatible with your own true nature. But I like the original, but admittedly less practical, answer much better ... ie ... Much of technical analysis resorts to clever use of wet ware geometry (eyeball regressions at the cost of ever ‘solving’ the larger system - which is yourself.) Much of ‘fundamental’ analysis resorts to clever use of wet ware algebra ( valuations at the cost of ever ‘solving’ the larger system - which is yourself.) Much of ‘sentiment’/narrative analysis resorts to clever use of wet ware reflexivity (projections at the cost of ever ‘solving’ the larger system - which is yourself.) "'tis an ill wind that blows no minds". - Syadasti

Clearly written... and it makes a lot of sense When you don’t know who you really are, you remain unconsciously trapped in a false fight with basically being who your brains think the “somebody else meme wants you to be”. Thoughts and beliefs are ‘given’ to you... performance workers - which traders are - doing typical ‘know thyself work tend to fall into comparison traps... activities like seeking (and reseeking... and reseeking...) character references from themselves, etc... perennials cycle of a waxing inner Dunning–Kruger effect...then a sudden, unexpected enanthropic waning... a rushing to the opposite extreme ... When you ‘know thyself’, all that stuff is dropped ... simply unnecessary. When you really ‘know thyself’, your experience - but not necessarily your expressions - arise via ‘thou art that’.

charith, Turn the status of all Analysis Techniques off before changing / formatting the Symbol to DIA in that chart. Selectively turn them back on to find 'offender' Why aren't you using TS support forum? http://www.livescience.com/50248-children-autism-gi-symptoms.html

minoo, I really appreciate your intention ( which is obviously not coming from the soul-sucking vortex of the internet where ‘know-it-alls’ and contrarians find their miserable home ) but - ‘know thyself’ and ‘flow thyself’ really are distinctively different topics... ...unfortunately, to ‘know thyself’ provides no assurance of ‘flow thyself’... etc. For the few - I long ago pretty much abandoned this thread because the ‘flow thyself’ discussion was being taken in the direction of Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi flow, to whom flow is almost strictly a psychological phenomenon attained via seligman type, etc. psychological ‘activities’. Such stuff may be an ok way to study and explore and describe facets of ‘flow’ - but without the prerequisite body work to clear bound flow, any application of Mihaly stuff will fail. Ie From the currently dominant paradigms best epitomized by Mihaly - flow may episodically sprout, but it will not take root. In case you’re not aware, there is a companion Know Thyself thread where that post and any others like it you find would help others be " more rooted in [their] system and self." All the best, zdo

:helloooo: "investing" There’s that word again gold is never a good investment it is only rarely even among the best trades its best purpose is as a (relatively) physically secure, easily transact able, etc. etc. store of (un-invested) wealth :spam: You Think You're An Investor? I Think Not | Zero Hedge

We now interrupt your technical programming... The dollar is now “strong” and PM’s are ‘weak’ . But are PM’s really ‘weak’ ? Will an oz of gold still purchase pretty much what it always did in goods and services? Over decades and decades , has it lost anywhere near the purchasing power the USD, etc. has lost? The dollar is now “strong” and gold is ‘weak’ - but only if you have a very short memory or limited knowledge and understanding. Have you held an oz of gold in your hands lately? It takes 1200 USD to buy that? I’m thinkin that one can buy 1200 USD with one little oz of the stuff says far, far more about the dollar (or whatever fiat/debt currency you’re ‘swapping’) than it does about gold. Like - instead of at 2000 decibels, now it only screams at 1200 decibels in the canary mine. But that is still screaming bloody (money) murder. Each of us is either pretending or not pretending that our (worthless) paper currencies have not lost any value since the exchange taxation / assassination / demonetization of PM’s. Each of us is either in denial or not in denial. Each of us is either herd supporting a lie, a fraudulent paper PM market, a ‘matrix’ of sorts - or NOT. Just saw where Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation says their guarantees of funds are uncertain / at risk / just may not be possible in over 50% of the un(der)funded pensions in the US. That, played on out, is how this fiat, keynesian rip-off , ultimately gets you - blatantly. If you are younger and paying/saving into this system, you are REALLY getting ripped off by unnoticable little bits and pieces every day. ...paraphrasing Francisco’s “money speech” in Atlas Shrugged - PM’s are an objective value, an equivalent of wealth produced. Fiat paper is a mortgage on wealth that does not yet exist, backed by a gun aimed at those who are expected to produce said wealth into existence. Paper is a check drawn by legal looters upon an account which is not theirs: upon the virtue of the victims. Watch for the day when it becomes marked: ‘Account overdrawn.’ Fwiw, for me re ” Gold Bullish or Bearish " I have been bearish gold for years now in terms of silver. Over the years I have swapped gold for silver and just recently ‘finished’ - now (except for a selection of gold coins I want to keep) I’m entirely out of physical gold, entirely into physical silver (which has its own set up practical hassles, btw) In terms of fiat, re ” Gold Bullish or Bearish" - I could not care less. We now return you to your regularly scheduled technical analysis...

It’s literally “...thoughts after skimming...” a current example of (state of the art) trading literature - period. It is ok to refer to voice of trading materials for examples and illustration. And ...It is even ok for the (now confirmed) voice of trading to try to silence non voice of trading talk... after all, dominant paradigms might be being challenged... anxiety that big trouble might ensue if more than a tiny few consider non consensus ways and perspectives. Take it however you take it. Call it whatever you call it. Feed in and keep the thread alive as long as you want... You are welcome to speak to your audience through this thread as much as you like or need... just remember though, my intended audience is very tiny... Wishing you all the best, zdo

FOR THE MANY: “It has been tried” If digital automation is not your thing then that should settle it for you. So - seriously and respectfully -When would now be a good time to click out of this thread and spend your precious, limited time studying, developing and practicing your own specialization in trading. FOR THE FEW: “It has been tried” The Sanskrit translation is “it can’t be done” reminds me of this cut and paste... He ‘really ought to have known better’. Who knows how many total, but in one thread alone Db has + 80 posts differentiating ‘Wyckoff’ from ‘VSA’ (and for some reason he even pitched in and helped differentiate VSA from “VSA-TG” in the process). Question this - If the “knockoffs that followed” Wyckoff are not authentic Wyckoff, then an attempt to automate VSA is not an attempt to automate Wyckoff. Which way is it going to be, db ? Duplicitous? Beyond the benefit of the obvious economies in a one line slur - he ‘really ought to have known better’... twice. Another not so minor distinction - for the few - until ‘It” (TradeGuider in this case) sends actual orders and manages actual positions, “It” has not been tried. ... He ‘really ought to have known better’.... thrice. In another post/thread, I may draw some parallels someday between what motivated Wyckoff and Williams to begin with... and what motivated them to produce ‘courses of study’(...btw it’s not pretty). But for now, let’s just focus down on TradeGuider a little bit... imo, sales success was more important to TradeGuider than product development and improvement. They were indifferent to sustained development - if they ever really cared at all - beyond getting some software out there to elicit seminar training session enrollments where the big bucks were. For the most part, they shipped the first efforts that compiled / didn’t crash and were done with it. Fifty percent hit rate was enough ... They claimed to apply Artificial Intelligence but that was just a rip-off promotional buzz phrase. In reality all they did was utilize marginal fuzzy logic for the price patterns. The volume patterns were strictly pre-programmed VSA ‘micro’ patterns. Folks - db’s pronouncement notwithstanding - and whether you’re talking “It” as automating Wyckoff or “It” as automating VSA doesn’t matter - TradeGuider does not even begin to qualify as a real , honest ‘try’ at “It” and He ‘really ought to have known better’.- four different ways now... And, like - does https://community.tradestation.com/Discussions/Topic.aspx?Topic_ID=88600 qualify as a “It has been tried” with SLA ??? Hell no!!! He ‘really ought to have known better’... times 5. FOR THE MANY: If you’re still reading, all I can say is you were notified. This thread is about ‘automation’ and is in the Beginners Forum section. ... if you’re not into that then again I would suggest you return to developing your own ‘wetgrey automation’ as soon as possible ... and may the wyckoff be with you

Chillax, db. Reverend Wyckoff is not under attack. The flock is not under attack. No one on the way to Wyckoff or the “knockoffs” is being waylaid. No one is stomping in your threads rudely attempting to guide ppl away from the method when they are there only to understand how to use the method. The pdf is not being reviewed. As explained above, the thread simply explores the weaknesses of settling on the 'voice of trading' definitions of the "purpose of characterization" and proposes alternate sequencing of curricula for developing traders - with a little extra consideration in terms of all types of ‘automation’ (including wetgreyware automation - acknowledged or denied)... it’s not anti-coadunation at all. And let’s leave the thread name the same. It is SO literal... thoughts after skimming... exactly what happened. .. When you posted you’ve added new material I didn’t initially go skim it and with each passing day likelihood decreased that I would ever go skim it... but then you come in here and promote it... now if I do go skim it, what do you think I will do if I have happen to have thoughts after skimming it ? If we’re going to get ridiculous - you could start a thread entitled “my thoughts after skimming your thoughts after skimming SLAMT” ?

 this thread is ultimately about automation - not Wyckoff, and not automation of Wyckoff. It was started in reaction to what I call MarketTyping being placed at the very end of SLAMT instead of central or at the beginning. it is a useless thread to the many... useful to a tiny few... Some discussion... To me “Automate. Wyckoff.” is not an oxymoron at all... Wyckoff is already automated... many times... it is automated by as many brains who are attempting to apply it. Each instance of such ‘automation’ will utilize and emphasize certain aspects and neglect or be blind to other parts of his work. Each instance of such ‘automation’ will have greyware that is more ‘trainable’ in some areas of ‘wycof’ than in others. Each instance of such ‘automation’ will have been exposed to different wetware programming along the way. As with any automation, the goal is to limit processing to the salient factors. Understandably, in each instantiation, those parts of the Wyckoff way that the greyware and wetware can’t establish ready flow in will be heavily discounted. Db’s posting across the years is an excellent case study of such refining of certain aspects and de-emphasis / relinquishment of other aspects of ‘Wyckoff’. His attempts to distill the essence of Wyckoff have not and should not go unnoticed - but nonetheless, his greyware and wetware will omit / de-emphasize parts of the way that would be useful, even essential, to Wyckoff ‘automation’ for some other greywares and wetwares... ... And regarding ‘real’ automation ... of the Wyckoff way. It is nowhere near the top of the list of methods in amenability to automate but, at the ‘macro’ levels of the way, it IS possible to codify Wyckoff’s ‘9’ buying and selling “tests”. Automation of Wyckoff tests would certainly not be my cup of tea... but I have looked at it enough to determine feasibility. It should be noted also that there are significant exceptions/ambiguities/complexities that would have to be handled in areas of re-accumulation and re-distribution... but all trading system coding requires exception, etc. coding regardless of method...* remember though, I’m not here to promulgate such - this thread is about automation in general, not automation of Wyckoff. Btw... only a few could actually stay true to the original ‘material’ / logic ... most architects, during design, would resort to techniques that would make “Wyckoff purists” shudder - even though they could still come up with the same ‘trees’ and trades as discretionary traders would...... *it should also be noted again that exceptions/ambiguities such as those mentioned above in the areas of re-accumulation and re-distribution are endemic to all ‘ways’, methods, and systems... and should be dealt with programmatically as best as possible... but to the extent they cannot be fully resolved , for the bottom line they can be addressed via proper sizing... ie beyond a certain point in any trader’s development (automated or discretionary), it becomes “fk trying to minimize risks further” and shifts to “emphasize optimal exposure”. MarketTyping first is the best way I’ve come across to address this... hence this thread about how I think most traders in the ‘voice of trading’s’ trance have it bassackwards Worth attempting for most traders? No. but Possible? Yes. Advisable for a few to attempt? Absolutely!.... ... Moving on to another example... basic SLA would be relatively easy to code and would perform as well as most discretionary beginners right out the box... -Generating and prioritizing the horizontal ‘lines’/’zones’ has been programmed for years. -On one of the important micro levels, a big meme in Wyckoff circles is “software won't work to identify buying pressure and selling pressure” That is a limiting belief. These days order and transaction flow analytics via code are generally superior to ‘continuous eyeballs analytics - especially if your code accommodates the reality that ‘volume’ / trade flow / etc patterns will mean one thing in one MarketType and another in a different MarketType, etc. HFT has introduced a sort of ‘toxicity-driven' volatility and the first impulse is to make bid and offer replenishment models, etc, etc even more central and complex, but actually it turns out HFT has inadvertently rolled over and gifted us with a very old and basic ‘tell’. -Generating/drawing’ angled ‘straight’ lines / trend lines and entry on crossover or on retrace after a crossover has also been programmed for years. How strict or loose the trading rules for the system are would be up to the ‘automation’ creator... same as with the ‘discretionary’ ‘wet’ ‘automation’ discussed at the top of the post... This is leading us back to ‘setups’ again...” Wyckoff. Setups. “ is also supposed to be a downright oxymoron. :rofl: More later ...maybe... Have a great weekend all zdo D.B. Vaello

More on “There are no "setups" in Wyckoff” p 45 SLAAMT Bless Wyckoff’s and DB’s heart, maybe they never imagined automated trading. If you automate, you will find it necessary to “have’ and ‘do’ setups (and triggers)... if you must you can make them fuzzy and call them “no(t) setups” if it helps keep your algos tuned to the auctions... but still - they are setups. If you don’t automate... if you must/if it helps, then you can deny setups by pure emphasis and focus on what happens after ‘setup’ has formed... or you can acknowledge that they are setups... in that a quorum of conditions have been met... and use them... It is not an accident that SLTAMT, etc. came into mind a little bit. The person I am mentoring right now is all up in Wycoff - and I have to struggle not to slap completely silly some of the dumbass Newtonian laws and logic he has picked up / created / associated with the constructs... This thread is still ultimately about automation...

Gamera ??? DBP ??? pg 41 SLAMT ???