zdo

I am the worst jerk on TL .... but ... "Part of engaging online is dealing with jerks. It’s part of the deal. Back in the old days when people got up on soap boxes to vent there were jerks then too. No doubt many a slur was hurled in many a public square back in the day along with many a fist. In most respects we are probably a much more courteous [world] today, even with the relative anonymity and ease of communication via the Internet. But the sensitivity level of some has just gone off the charts in recent years. Some people cannot dismiss jerks any longer. They must be protected from views and words which do not fit their worldview. The dialectic orchids must be shielded from the harsh breezes of reality and – gasp – people who think “gender studies” is a bunch of BS." Nick Sorrentino You got to be pretty serious and intolerant to tell someone (like Mits) to just shut up because he thinks a post is stupid or counterproductive or downright harmful. Believe me, there are thousands upon thousands of positive fluff lists and pieces strewn across years and years of trading forums for noobs and struggling traders to lap up. One of our latest fads in here is to resurrect 3 year old dead topics as if they are brand new discussions. imo, these mushy lists have their place. Unfortunately, their place is forever locked at the first cusp between losing and surviving at trading and even there they never have anything but an allopathic, symptom suppression purpose... which, btw, pretty much sums up what the 'voice of trading' is and does. Statoids: 1 if a noob and/or struggling trader 'needs' gushy, positive pabulum posts - they likely ain't going to make it anyways. 2 if a noob and/or struggling trader is not sufficiently and consistently risk averse within each and every trade that goes into the red on his/her own, no amount of reading about it in someone's 'new' list of rules will bring sudden realization and fix it. 3 Statistically - those who start learning trade selection first are forever at a disadvantage... ... Here is a list of substance I respect in posts: 1 questions. Rarely are answers provided btw. You can assess the quality of questions on forums. Note that the VERY BEST questions get no replies at all... Still - I encourage peeps to broadcast the question and simultaneously carry the attitude that " the question is the answer" 2 acknowledgement of polarity and oscillation. These 'helpful' cream of wheat lists don't do that. Notice that Mits red replies to these mush lists (above and at http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/markets/20456-just-some-basic-tips-investing.html#post203735 etc) reveal the polarity and oscillation that the list maker wishes to conceal. From my perspective, outright denial of the biphasic tendencies that hold, then switch to another 'tendency' - both internally and price patterns of trading instruments - is rampant. One of the main hypnotic tenets of the 'voice of trading' is that traders should have a list of rules (and if a potential trade does not precisely fit those rules don't take it, etc). I have taught for years that traders (noobs too (who btw have already been trading their whole lives and don't need fkn elementary school all over again)) have the capacity to categorize the various states that a market oscillates/mutates between and that they need to develop sets of rules for each of those states. Bluntly - One 'list' will keep you at the first cusp fo ever 3 acknowledgement of 'stuck' states. This one is closely related to #2 above. Don't have time to go into it now 4 open with the pain Khalil Gibran

raja, If you only have end of day data that does not update prices during the day then you can not accomplish "buy on market as soon as previous day high is broken" via TS system or with EL order placement objects hth zdo

Mits is beyond. His cynicism and bitterness sees beyond and cuts through. His contributions are, imo, more valuable than the 'positive' candy posts. btw When an author doesn't appear to know the difference between trading and investing it is quite reasonable to question the relevance of "someone's piece". We have a new GSD puppy. He will eat ANYTHING But that doesn't mean we should let him eat just anything. Noobs are like puppies. They will eat ANYTHING. But that doesn't mean we should feed them all kinds of crap. But we do. We feed them lists of rules. Gann's 18 rules of trading... magically reinvented over and over again... each reinvented list with a small personal twist, addition, or deletion that only has meaning to the list maker temporarily and to no one else. And each list is published as if it is applicable across the board - when in actuality, it is only salient to a small set of systems. * * like at http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/markets/20443-10-rules-successfully-read-stock.html

:helloooo: The "slow poison" IS the eu and the effects are showing up at an accelerating rate. Stick around... there will be nothing left of the eu for them to "leave" https://capitalistexploits.at/2016/08/easiest-short-history/ ... and yet, inextricably, some still can't fathom how or why normal people would 'Brexit' (... or Spanxit, or Grexit, or Frxit, or... ) “I think frankly when it comes to chaos you ain’t seen nothing yet” — Nigel Farage :rofl: tennis anyone?

if you thought my post was promoting trump or insinuating he would 'solve' anything - please think again

EVERYTHING IS RIGGED. One could argue that Energy is still driven by supply and demand considerations. But in a trade, both things exchanged need to be authentic. If the currency being used to exchange for oil is 'fabricated'... then the price of oil and everything else is not and cannot be really discovered by the 'market' . You may or may not have been around for the last thirty years and if you have, maybe you haven't noticed the gradual deterioration in authentic price discovery. I have. The degradation was gradual through the early 90's, accelerated some in the late 90's, and has hockey sticked since. Money supply gone mad, interest rates centrally 'controlled', outright price manipulation via derivatives, gov't agencies picking the winners and losers ... drip.. drop... cascade to total corruption. Stock pricing symptoms at http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-08-04/mind-gaap-study-links-excessive-earnings-addbacks-accounting-issues EVERYTHING IS RIGGED. Learn more: EVERYTHING IS RIGGED: Medicine, science, elections, the media, money, education, search engines, social media... you are living in a fabricated fairy tale - NaturalNews.com :haha:of course zdo thinks that trump is complicit in the 'rigging' ... watch him 'give it away' welcome to venuswela across the pond... welcome to bulgria, iotaly, grease... ya'll have a great weekend zdo Of Two Minds - Revealing the Real Rate of Inflation Would Crash the System Of Two Minds - What Happens When Rampant Asset Inflation Ends?

re: "Demo accounts can be in learning forex easily, it helps in testing any broker's processes as well." 87% of participants end up as lo(o)sers . They accomplish it in many different ways. When you see a noob placing inordinate attention on the 'interface' instead of his trade(s) it is always a very safe bet he will end up in the 87% looser bunch. Encouraging noobs to mess around in sim is bad advice. At the beginning, noobs would be better off skipping the hours of interface training on how to place orders and the different types of orders, etc etc ... esp. since the important initial stuff can be learned in 5 minutes instead of ('free') hours and later any specialized orders they may use can be learned on the fly... re: " I have noticed that many brokers are contributing reasonable efforts in conducting weekly or monthly webinars to educate their traders, the good thing is that mostly these stuff are free of any cost." I won't take the time to discuss all the perils of these "freebies". For snicks, here is one aspect - Please show us even one of these webinars that do not ( subliminally or openly ) attempt to train noobs on how to 'filter' whether to take a trade or not ... by advising them to establish 'rules'.... (rules that will be incomplete and inadequate in real situations btw ... and ... rules that 95% of them won't realize for months that they didn't and will never have capacity to follow consistently, btw.) actually the ratio of posts hyping sim to posts critical of sim runs about 100 to 1 across all forums, etc. :helloooo: ... if you're really anti -sim, you've got some catching up to do i never seen a golden C who was against simn

jpenny, re: That is stating it very well ... much milder than I would put it of course For instance instead of "it's best to get that stuff out in the open sooner rather than later." I would have said "in my experience with a significant sample of traders, it's CRUCIAL to get that stuff out in the open sooner rather than later." I think golden C 'voices of trading' conclude sim out the gate will save some noobs from the inevitable ... futile waste of time ... golden C 'voices of trading' never realize their trail map actually ends at "banned profits" mits, re "I am currently trying to locate my favourite nutcracker." kinesthetic amnesia has set in... check at the bottom of your right leg... just below the ankle... it probably has a sock and shoe around it.

Buy Colostrum Supplements | Sovereign Laboratories ... not offered in the spirit of :spam: btw

True story: Guru scheduled a hotel meeting hall. Seven hundred ‘traders’ packed the room. Over the course of 45 minutes he shared that he had found a unique way to use a very generic indicator and had that had enabled him to become a young wall street whiz and retire. He explained nothing further. He offered a free trial to his advisory service. Its performance was pretty dam good and three weeks later he called major top. The next day, Oct 16, 1987, he took profits on the close - in FEAR. He was a great analyst trying to be a guru. He was not a fund(s) manager - else he wouldn’t have been so risk averse with profits. Gann was also a great analyst trying to be a guru. He was also not a fund(s) manager. Both of them lost subscribers in droves. Gann hallucinated things that (still) do not exist. like... It would really be cool if market ‘geometry’ really was euclidian - but it ain’t. A75 has been contributing vitae of successful ‘traders’. I’m grateful he lived and did what he did with charts -but imo - Gann barely makes the cut into this list.

Past, (I’ll leave out the discouragement and jump directly into encouragement :rofl: ) ... Long ago I transitioned to working with those on the 2nd cusp but I still give about 5 minutes a day to 1st cusp traders (mostly via TL). Anyways, way back when I probably worked with about a dozen traders with near equivalent vignettes - basically = gave up, now coming back, using methods ___, ___, and ___... Guess what? The issues initially reported never turned out to be the real issues. The small percentage who dug for the real issues were the only ones who stood a chance. The rest did same things over... got back into the same old internal oscillation patterns ... in just at a new and different time... so What are your real issues? Sincerely wishing you all the best. zdo

Dang Mits you are being too honest. You musta not got the memo - Truth in these times is not cool. :rofl: Fwiw, I would temper your volume position a little bit... ie - one man’s volume is not another man’s volume. It’s a big ‘voice of trading’ myth that volume is VERY objective data... particularly since most proponents and teachers cannot even acknowledge, let alone build workable frameworks for, multiple simultaneous auctions. These teachers also assume their own vantage of volume (or whatever method) is ubiquitously transferable to everyone and anyone... when in reality only a tiny few students could ever benefit from / apply their perspective... Each trader must align himself to the methods most compatible to his (or her) own nature.... Some methods ... like those closer to the tape... absolutely require working with volume. Other methods, as you so succinctly described, are not helped at all by inclusion of volume data. fwiw, Long ago DBP used to advise traders to learn to identify precise situations (patterns ) when to use volume and to ignore it the rest of the time. A 'one man’s volume is not another man’s volume' example: I get big edges in automated index trading segging out 'market order' volume data... but I got better sense now than to try to teach / sell that to anyone else...

re: "First of all, trading is not for rich or wealthy people. as a matter of fact, the ends of trading is to build wealth." Yes ultimately the activities of the wealthy trends towards wealth preservation. However, absolute levels of wealth is never the determinant of how hungry a person stays and how much he or she continues to ‘trade’. Every few months or years the wealthy people I know share clever trades they just got into... and later they tell me when they get out of them. ie they never stop trading. Ie they never stop “building wealth”. Note cuspers! ---- They do it with their imaginations ... not via trading methods or “KNOWLEDGE” ... Ultimately such trading, investing, wealth preservation allocations develop into a study of exposure. re: "Also, Courage and being afraid are not tools or basic requirement for trading. you need KNOWLEDGE of trading. because entering the market with courage or fear will not help you except you know how and what to trade." I have no idea what your Golden C is selling but that “KNOWLEDGE” crap is a trap. Beginners in ANY performance work/game should avoid getting knowledge at first. Rather they should get a feel for what the game has for them and what they have to bring to the game from within. The knowledge and skills they need to develop will quickly become apparent. Contrary to what the voice of trading’s vendor lie erroneouslyrepeats a gazillion times over - “KNOWLEDGE” is not what they need before beginning. Over 80 legitimate learning theories have been developed - yet the voice of trading vendors still keep coming back trying to sell beginners programs that are essentially repeats of elementary school in a system that uses a failed model. ...and both send students out into the world believing they are prepared and have relevant “KNOWLEDGE” but they are not at all really prepared to perform ... Follow the suggested voices of trading’s path and very likely, the only “KNOWLEDGE” you will end up with is the “KNOWLEDGE” you have the wrong “KNOWLEDGE” I thank god almost every day the fkn 90 yr old voice of trading is finally dying... The depths to which beginning traders must delve into ‘knowledge’ will unfold later as they develop. Cramming some random ‘knowledge’ into their brains before they get their bodies involved is a big fkn counterproductive waste of time. ... and is only beneficial to the professional educators like they got stuck with in elementary school... (Like you? What are you selling, dbelov?) Noobs (and yes this is a noob thread) - just trade. You likely already have a vision of what and how you want to trade. Do that. Yep - Do that with real trades. And - yes, that vision will have to be corrected... and - yes, it will cost you dearly... and - yes, it will most likely involve failures... and pains. But noob, you are sufficiently intelligent and self-correcting to find out what you need to master as you go along ... and when the time is right, suddenly, you will know precisely what you need to know - and only then - you can look for the right teacher of the appropriate “KNOWLEDGE”... :haha: ... that is if you have the COURAGE and PERSISTENCE . Noobs, the ‘voice of trading’ assumes you are starting at the first cusp. Most people buy that and do start at the first cusp and never go any further. I’m telling you something the ‘voice of trading’ by rule cannot tell you. You can immediately go to the second cusp and work there until you get into the top tier... ... that is if you have the COURAGE and PERSISTENCE.:rofl:

Thank you - Voice of Trading. Let's all act as if com37 is still active in this thread ... 3 years later... here goes ... circa 7/11/16 not /13 If you are afraid to fail; you probably will. If you are not afraid to fail; you probably will. ... “afraid” is irrelevant. If you do not ‘fail’, you will certainly not ever ‘succeed’ "What has been universal of those who have succeeded is: the ability to endure. Unfortunately, it’s a law: if you just persist, you can have poor methods and even half ass intentions and still succeed. No short-cuts, as everyone must pay their dues, but you can facilitate success by never quitting." Scott Sonnon and Re: “Courage” Excellent choice of words! Do you really have courage? ( btw: answer that internally ... not up in this fkn place ) Do you have the necessary courage to consciously give up / alter your attitudes? “Courage is the most important of all the virtues, because without courage you can’t practice any other virtue consistently. You can practice any virtue erratically, but none of them consistently without courage.” Maya Angelou “ courage is the catalyst for all change. To modify any behavior or situation, it demands that you courageously adopt and repeat an uncomfortable shift in a pattern. ...” Courage is derived from the Latin cor; meaning “the heart enabling the ability to face difficulty.” Feel entirely uncertain of the outcome of your impending trade, but still act courageously and face the challenge of unpredictable results. The courage to face the unknown itself can empower you. ( btw - you cannot adequately simulate the necessary realities via 'sim' trading. Sim is masturbation. Get real out the fkn gate (yes a real account - if nothing else a tiny little Oanda acct)... that is - if you have the courage... Later, when you know what you need to practice, then you can include sim for highly structured practice... ) courage is a ‘first step’, but it is essentially an oppositional advance. Ultimately you must truly reframe your potential to what you have not imagined yet ... beyond what you have previously and are defining yourself currently... NO one else can tell you if you "have a place in trading." When you can authentically smile on your mistakes, your failures, your losses - in real time... then you’re getting ready to succeed.

This OP post is an example of a collectivist who has bought into the Technetronic Era - which is a vision rooted in historic Technocracy from the 1930s. It is also the resurrection of feudalism with many new twists thanks to advanced technology. Thus, the term neofeudalism ...: A few own all the resources and then tell everyone else what they can or can’t do on planet earth. In 1938, The Technocrat magazine defined Technocracy as: “Technocracy is the science of social engineering, the scientific operation of the entire social mechanism to produce and distribute goods and services to the entire population… “ Technocracy is a complete takeover of both the means of production and consumption, a feat never before attempted nor achieved in the history of the world. https://www.technocracy.news/index.php/2016/07/06/whence-technocracy-neofeudalism-peasants-pitchforks/ Just like with the 'helpful idiots' in russia, we can expect the OP to help with mass piling on of blaming ... ...complete with fake culprits of course “transnational corporations” “Now our public services are exposed to the doctrine of Convervatives like Boris Johnson that strongly believe in privatisation and empowering big business. This means a potential privatisation of the NHS and a complete victory for transnational corporations who can how bargain for working standards that are worse off for the common citizen.” Omg OP the eu IS transnational corporations... dude, you have faked yourself out :helloooo: ... (and btw, “bargain for working standards” is so passe... transnational corporations could not give a sht about “bargaining for worse working standards” ... they are busy replacing labor with robotics ) "The EU is a failure in every way. Problem is, the EU's failure is being exploited to build an even more centralized superstate, and the Brexit is being used as a scapegoat for all the economic problems that were already present in the union for years. This has nothing to do with the UK being isolated - this is about those in the UK who wanted to be free being BLAMED for all the fiscal problems the globalists have caused." Brandon Smith Every single one of the ‘problems’ the OP listed can be handled just as well ‘locally’. Example: “The EU hates us, and we won’t have any leverage in trade deals we make.” If they want brit products and services they will still buy brit products and services period... ie GB will still have just as much leverage as ever... (and btw, if the EU hates “us”, why the hell be submitting to them to begin with? ) On second thought, maybe the germs / eu can do a better job of governing brits than brits... If you would like to make faster progress on becoming an international zombie, I suggest adding daily trips to Taybarns (:spam: hot stock tip in disguise :rofl:)

mm, good post. yep ‘institutional trading’ after 1980 reminds me of Of Two Minds - Governments Change, the Corporatocracy Endures and Cat's Cradle - Salient beyond, re; "At least I know how mitsubishi feels now.. This still doesn't answer the question." it appears dominover is looking for a description of pre 1980 ‘institutional trading’ patuca, I disagree there are only two types of ‘institutional’ trader. I discussed a third type above - which if you have to have a single word for is best summed up as ‘narrative’ trading among networks (...to be clear - these narratives are NOT fundamentals. ...and btw, the real ‘narratives’ are rarely publicized... rather the financial media is complicit in generating false narratives. ) – Henry David Thoreau (1817 – 1862) - zdo (1542 – 1636) :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl: :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl: :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

just curious vlad but what will they "eventually lose more than gain in the leave" ? thx, zdo

Joel, re: “...I suppose this could be considered bad habit in certain situations: "He [has] the fortitude and patience to endure days or weeks of losses, knowing that some big wins would soon wipe out those losses...". Best for traders to avoid viewing that virtue via “in certain situations”. Instead frame it in terms of ‘system specific’. For example: The closer to true trend trading your system/method is the more import “fortitude and patience and endure “ have - especially in the early stages of a position. The further away from true trend trading your method system/method is, the less “fortitude and patience and endure “ is indicated... ie some systems require complete absence of “fortitude and patience and endure “ Btw, most noobies working to apply trend oriented systems are far more likely to develop the “ habit” (in certain situations ) of NOT having the “fortitude and patience to endure “ winning positions. See ya’ll later... zdo

Great post A75 ! thx Your insights into trading teachers and students meshes with things I’ve posted over the years here in TL. I will emphasize (again) that traders should only seek a teacher, coach, or mentor after they are ready - not before. I will also add (again) that teacher, coach, and mentor are distinct specialties and it is very rare that an individual can provide services in more than one of those specialties. Btw, Caleb also sounds like a perfect example of ‘find your own way’ which I’ve also banged on over and over in here. The only place where I disagree with you is re: “Trading mastery isn’t beyond your ken”. Trading mastery is actually beyond the ‘ken’ of all but a few. Re: #'s4,5,6 above - I’m back home for a couple days. Came into the office for a few minutes today to 1 check and move stops, 2 take some losses (no 6’s at this time) ‘manually’/early, and 3 adjust some sizes (simultaneous with a bit of rollover) for all my discretionary longer holding period trades ...

I'm here for about an hour... this is what YOU get :rofl: Of Two Minds - The Structure of Collapse: 2016-2019 luv, zdo

Very very generally - A large percentage (~80% ?) of institutional traders are bound in the instruments they can trade and have ‘someone’ they call every morning for daily guidance. For example, every institutional bond trader I’ve gotten to know has a ‘friend’ ( in Chicago or the Caymans or wherever) that they raise on the phone before acting. Individual traders ‘copy’ that by using advisory services. Only a tiny percentage (~1-3% ? ) discover and create opportunities on their own. Individual traders ‘copy’ that by discovering and creating opportunities on their own... well duh In the middle is that remaining percentage whose direction is set by management and they bring a competency at the level of portfolio management. Individual traders can ‘copy’ that by emphasizing portfolio structure and composition and sizing instead of focusing on trade selection... At any level of trading, the narrative reasons given are rarely the actual reasons for trades taken. ... What an 'institutional' trader tells his immediate supervision depends on their informal relationship... and what an 'institutional' trader tells higher mgmt. is likely different from what he tells his immediate supervision After a couple of years, they can "use" any method they want as long as they are in the black. Actually, they can use "use" any method they want even if they are in the red - just not for too long with the original firm ... Some do. Some don't. Halfway through most any book you get on the subject you’ll probably realize you and the author were not sharing a common meaning for the term ‘institutional trader’ ... Q: How do you think the unthinkable? A: With an itheberg.

Mits, "The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those that speak it." George Orwell in other words - You are fkn despicable :rofl: zdo

The Global Monetary System Has Devalued 47% Over The Last 10 Years | Zero Hedge :missy:

Generally, if "a" / one client asks for delivery he can take it - for extra 'fees'. London will mostly make him pay extra pounds. NY will mostly make him jump through extra hoops. Other (emerging) PM exchanges are better but anywhere you go delays and jack arounds will be omnipresent. Whole different story if "a" clients becomes thousands...

SILVER, Welcome back. wtf you been? re: As I’ve been chirping off topic for literally years now - this is a dollar thread. Most are not interested in bullion / taking delivery. They are trading paper from the git go. Nothing wrong with that. TL has built up 230 some pages of mostly ‘technical’ opinions about doing just that. (Things do start getting shaky when ‘valuation’ considerations are thrown into the mix - mostly because conventional ‘supply and demand’ analysis is thrown at PM’s but actually SD doesn’t work the same in hoarded commodities, etc.etc.) (Regarding the pricing mechs discussed in the last few posts, the series of ‘campaign’ engineered in PM’s rivals that of penny stocks. So, imo, it is better to acknowledge this ‘corruption’ in the PM markets than not. Reality is even ETF's would not deliver when authentic demand for physical PM's unfolds...) Anyways...My research puts paper PM’s as below average among leveraged trading instruments, but many are still drawn to them ... for all kinds of conscious and unconscious reasons. Point is - anyone talking trading PM’s or (and this is a real tip off they are not a “bit deeper”) when anyone talks about ‘investing’ in PM’s, what they are considering is PM’s relative to their dollars. They are dollar centric / dollar faithful. I often go off topic and 'discuss' PM's from a more ‘price insensitivity’ viewpoint. ie At ANY price PM’s are a good wealth preservation vehicle. As mentioned above they are only rarely among the better trading vehicles ... and PM's are not an 'investment' - period. (want to 'invest' in PM's? Get into mining them...) Those who are actually accumulating physical bullion encounter quite a different world than those who are trading paper. rhetorical answer to what seems to be a rhetorical question:) ... ie SILVER, I'm thinking you need this answer like you need another hole in your head ... so hopefully it's to the benefit of someone. zdo