Patuca

Here are a couple of interesting articles that may shed some light...... Gangster State America -- Paul Craig Roberts - PaulCraigRoberts.org http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2013/04/04/the-assault-on-gold-paul-craig-roberts/

Gangster State America -- Paul Craig Roberts - PaulCraigRoberts.org

No Bear Market In Gold -- Paul Craig Roberts - PaulCraigRoberts.org

You increase the supply of dollars you decrease the value of those dollars. You increase the supply of stock you decrease the value. naked short selling increases exponentially the supply with phantom shares...i.e. shares that don't exist ....and these are sold this ....depresses price...kinda of like dumping garbage tons of it on the market....no real worth..in normal shortselling the shares are borrowed to short. they are real shares. at least that is the way it is supposed to work. there is some jacking around even in normal short selling but in naked short selling millions of shares that don't exist are dumped on the market..that depresses and manipulates price...maybe i'll look around and see if i find a visual explanation (video clip...diagram...or something that better explains the phenomena) but basically it is an abnormal increase in supply to drive prives down intentionally. this driving down of price is something way outside of normal price movements in markets caused by normal buying and selling pressures. It is a ponzi scheme. Selling something that does't exist.

Last paragraph "In 2001, the NFA ordered Refco to pay $43 million to 13 investors after their Refco broker used bogus order tickets to clear trades. On May 16, 2005, the company disclosed that it had received a "Wells Notice," indicating it might face charges related to improper short selling at its Refco Securities unit and other matters. The company had been implicated in naked short sales on the stock of a company called Sedona Corp., disclosed that it was negotiating with the SEC and hoped to reach a settlement that would likely include an injunction against future violations and "payment of a substantial civil penalty." Refco put $5 million in reserve in anticipation of the settlement. The company has also been sued by Sedona in connection with this trading." Naked shrt selling manipulates price.......

what about the manipulated trend? sounds abit more accurate to me..:rofl::rofl:

Suiya ...maybe you don't know about naked shorting?...but then again maybe you do..you seem to take up for it??..per your post #440....maybe you don't know about manipulation on both long and short side??....maybe you don't know about manipulation on a daily..weekly..monthly...yearly..basis?? ..but i would have thought that having been a MM you would have at least SEEN some of this stuff i mentioned in my previous posts incluiding post #444?? maybe i was wrong.....who knows...only you know..and i guess you ain't telling....

Refco Refco - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

.............Refco.........

if you were a MM you know full well exactly how naked short selling works and the damage it does..that it is dishonest and a scam and a ponzi scheme...you don't need any explanation from me or anyone else...where you a MM back in the days of the soes bandits?? you also know that the present price in p.m. was manipulated and still is. why does germany want their gold and why can't we give it to them in an orderly and timely manner? you know exactly why.......of course MM's provided a service and provided liquidity but they also ripped people off left and right and every damn chance they got...to say deal with price or get out doesn't make it right...actually i think you just might see manipulation...as ..well..something all normal..and part and parcial with honest price action and normal market pressures. granted it is a mental battle and in many ways an intelligence game of who can outsmart who but it is unfair when some get advantage over others to make the same decision...you know exactly what i am talking about...Gov intervention in the markets is what gives the MM and exchanges the upper hand they need to manipulate the markets..i am not complaining i am just saying that manipulation takes place every day in practically all markets...and to deny that is to deny what is obvious...manipulation occurs from both long and short side everyday..you already know know this... a brokerage involved in naked short selling can ...go broke..... and never buy a damn thing back....never ever cover for selling something that didn't exist. i leave you to figure than one out...

agreed...but that doesn't mean there no manipulation. anyone that thinks there is no manipulation by deep pockets is very naive...

for joy if you are short:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

you were a MM and you don't see how naked short selling is wrong..hurts the markets and can run any company into bankruptcy..you can't see how it can be used to manipulate and unnaturally depresses the real value of a share? The only decision made was to manipulate gold to prop the dollar up. nothing was fair ..or honest about it...nor good for the markets but mark my words it will come back to bite them in the ass with a vengance..IMO time will tell..

who said i trade paper gold long? did i say that? you bet WITH the manipulation when trading and against when investing (catch a falling knife). That is exactly what capt Bob is doing. When you see the naked short selling is driving prices down ...of course ...you short...you can't stand in front of a runaway train and not get hurt.. and pipsqeak traders ain't gonna stop the movement of the train....but since you know it is rigged and being manipulated you bet against the manipulation as you see it ending..but not on paper because the whole sh?t bag is gonna blow up soon simply because too much paper for physical. have you ever watched the dom? all kinds pf manipulations take ALL day long.... at the tick level...manipulations take place at this level and they certainly do at other time frames. of course normal market pressures exist outside of manipulation but there exist intraday, daily, weekly, monthly and yearly manipulation going on also...and sometimes the manipulators get shafted ..remember the days of the soes bandits..they put the screws to many MM's...they got a good dose of their own freaking...medicine...i laugh..did you laugh?...MM's were always screwing the pipsqueak trader but they squeeled like pigs with the event of the soes bandits...sh?t it was funny..no ...hilarious..those were the days...nowdays it is hft against hft..sometimes one gobbles the other up...in this senario the pipsqueak trader has to make his living.... who you think drove the price of gold down? normal market pressures..did you notice the sudden violent start? the enormous increase in vol. any long gold bug holding paper is dead..or wish they were..investors simply see it as another buying opportunity.. I don't know why wycoffonians and many price action people ignore market manipulations?...it is useful to detect it when it does take place...maybe they just relax in the premise that price is gonna do what price is gonna do ...the market equivalent of lo que será será...as for me i am a bit interested in why the será happened and how it happened because that is a leading indicator...yes.. manipulation is a leading indicator ..have you ever seen that phrase coined before?...but as db used to be fond of saying..whatever floats your boat...i just try to keep mine floating by any and every means legally available to me...i love floating down the river...fishing...occasionally swimming upstream..to float back down again...and especially like riding my moto..and nice sunsets...i don't like people...some don't like me..

Lastninja2 you might wish to google jigsaw trading. They might have some useful tools for your senario. Only you know that....

you don't think initial risk is affected by actual risk?

thanks for the heads up. What a relief to know that there are no big market manipulations..are there like um ...small manipulations once in a while? Did mr livermore ever manipulate the markets? ..or are you saying there never has been any big time manipulations...ever..ever?

LOL .....are you saying it isn't rigged? no manipulation?

of course...such as that is happening as we type..and of course no real gold back this paper b.s....doesn't exist...they all know it is soon over for dollar..even central bank knows it...so they are desperate for any "real" wealth...guess what will happen when they have transferred out most of the "real wealth" from weak holders into strong hands...same song...same story...same dance as always...price will suddenly become alive and run north....in effect they will have screwed the small investor once again..modus operandi.... so what shall the small investor and holder of physical p.m. do? ...what should he do? to say it is over is to play right into their hand and trap...this is exactly what they want...see THEY want the real wealth and leave small investor/trader with worthless dollars...its all manipulated.....markets are not fair nor free....never have been..its a rigged game..always has been...you have to detect how they are rigging it...do their best to keep "real" vol from traders and investor...leak stories....naked short selling...do what basically amounts to insider trading...because they are the insiders...you or i go to jail for such nonsense...they get rich off such nonsense:)...of course all this is an opinion...it could be wrong:rofl: :rofl::embarassed:

we will see a RUN BACK UP IMO...its bearish because of the naked short selling most likely instigated by central bank (aka federal reserve)....to drive traders and investors out of P.M. to prop up dollar ...as the place to be..so more confidence in dollar...only reason dollar is still alive because it is reserve curr of the world..QE devalues dollars but central bank does QE to try and stimulate economy..fed can create all money necessary to accomplish its goals but one thing it CANNOT DO is stop the world from running from the dollar...once the rest of the world decides to break ties with dollar then the big ponzi scheme is over...they try to delay that from happening but the cannot stop it...demand for real gold and silver is still there...all this naked shorting is designed to drive people out of p.m. By propping dollar up that is being devalued because of QE which fed feels is necessary to keep economy going...sooner or later all this naked short selling has to end and when it does prices will rise again and somebody is gonna take a big crap in their pants...its all manipulated..one day soon it will not work any more...then what you gonna do?

Henry is right. it will only facilitate more wealth for the wealthy..in the long run it is ALWAYS a disaster and can led to nothing good. it is a mechanism whereby the general population will be made poorer....and their wealth transfered to the already wealthy...besides blowing up a currency bubble that will have to go kaboom one day. QE is what is driving Usa equities now...when it stops ...kaboom. ..or if it doesn't stop bydesign then it will stop by madness as the bubble gets bigger and bigger ...the louder the kaboom...the more people hurt...

why the drop in gold? Why Is Gold Crashing? | Zero Hedge

Why the drop in gold?

yes when we see interest rates begin to rise ...get ready..for the sh$t to hit the fan..it will happen fast this time...i agree Qe is driving equities it certainly ain't babies as, at least, americans don't have enough to drive the economy from our side of the world...mr dent says many boomers will start saving instead of consuming and when that happens with al three waves of BB then we have big problems...have not read mr schiffs book..may do so to get greater understanding...

you have to believe the markets are manipulated very single day....mr brooks says they arent..mr taylor says they are....imo they are down to the tick level...it used be one could outsmart the bastards at the tick level...hft has sort of ...well messed that action up to some degree..at least for older traders..younger traders...scalpers..with deft fingers and bright new gray matter that can read the DOM well can still beat em...but for people like me that ....it ..well..takes awhile to get my pea shooter out of the holster..how in the sam hell am i gonna read and play the dom? By the time i reach over to get my cup of coffee i done lost a bundle.. I cannot sit there like i got a corncob up my ass for 6 hours. so, you have to believe markets are manipulated..this is key to finding falling knifes and oportune times to snatch them out of the air. do we really believe the markets are free and all is fair?