Jump to content

Welcome to the new Traders Laboratory! Please bear with us as we finish the migration over the next few days. If you find any issues, want to leave feedback, get in touch with us, or offer suggestions please post to the Support forum here.

  • Welcome Guests

    Welcome. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest which does not give you access to all the great features at Traders Laboratory such as interacting with members, access to all forums, downloading attachments, and eligibility to win free giveaways. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. Create a FREE Traders Laboratory account here.

jperl

Trading with Market Statistics XI. HUP

Recommended Posts

This is the Market Statistics thread that some of you advanced traders have been waiting for. This is the "how to trade anywhere, anytime" thread otherwise called the "when not to trade thread", but not for NEWBIES. If you are a NEWBIE, back off and read the first ten threads on this topic starting [thread=1962]here[/thread].

 

One of the properties of most markets is the up and down motion that price action displays on virtually all time frames. Some traders call this the market volatility, others call it the natural market rotation. Newbie traders don't like this motion, because when they enter a trade they want the market to continue moving in their direction. Newbies fear volatility. Advanced traders love it. What ever you wish to call it, it is this motion that is tradeable. In the words of Nihabaashi, "To fear volatility is to fear profits".

 

The main purpose of this thread will be to show how you can use market statistics to determine the most probable times when the market will rotate and when it will not. Once you know this, you can then enter a trade either in the same direction that the market is moving or take a contertrend trade in the opposite direction. If you have read the previous market statistics threads, you already know how to do this. Here I want to start to put this all together in terms of a generalized concept which I call HUP.

 

HUP stands for Hold Up Prices. As the name implies, HUP are those prices where the price action tends to hold up, that is where the market slows down, pauses, then either reverses (read rotates) or continues in the same direction.

 

There are two kinds of HUP, static and dynamic. Static HUP are those prices which are fixed for the day. They don't change with market development. In contrast dynamic HUP change as the day progresses. As new data is added, dynamic HUP will readjust to reflect the new data.

 

Below are some examples of HUP that can be used in daily trading

 

 

STATIC HUP

 

Yesterdays High,Low,Close

Overnight High,Low

Any computations based on these

such as classic pivot points

 

 

DYNAMIC HUP

 

Yesterdays PVP,VWAP and SD's

2 day PVP, VWAP and SD's

1 week(5day) PVP, VWAP and SD's

2 week PVP, VWAP and SD's

1 month(4 week) PVP, VWAP and SD's

2 month PVP, VWAP and SD's

1 year PVP, VWAP and SD's

 

You can of course come up with other examples of HUP, such as previous bars highs and lows, or 2 day or longer static HUP, or dynamic HUP that are in between the ones I have listed. It really doesn't matter. More important is to realize that these HUP points are prices where the market will tend to hold up.

What HUP doesn't tell you of course, is how long the market will hold up and/or how far it will continue in the same direction or if it reverses, how large the reversal will be. Getting the direction correct doesn't mean you can sit back and do nothing. You still have to manage the trade.

In the video that follows you will see a 15 second chart with HUP lines drawn on it..

Green lines are SD's above a VWAP. Red lines are SD's below a VWAP. VWAP are dotted blue. PVP are purple lines

 

Now watch this video to see where these HUP lines come from and how the market reacts to them.

ER2HUPlinesOct24

Edited by jperl

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

excellent. I went and looked more at ensign after this, I see why you use it now. Thats really cool how it works with the previous time frame chart data.

 

Are you able to backfill data for the monthly/yearly vwap/pvp with IB/ensign?

I was thinking I would need software that can archive data and then get one of those new terrabyte drives but it seems I've made this much more complex than need be.

 

I found this on their site

http://ensign.editme.com/StdDev

Have they pretty much knocked off this stuff that I wouldn't have to program my own? I notice they mention this site in the response.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Are you able to backfill data for the monthly/yearly vwap/pvp with IB/ensign?

 

Yes, no problem

 

 

I found this on their site

http://ensign.editme.com/StdDev

Have they pretty much knocked off this stuff that I wouldn't have to program my own? I notice they mention this site in the response.

 

Interesting....didn't know they were working on it. You should see the post by mp_trader whose has been working on this too. I don't know if he has completed it though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jerry, I am working on it right now. To those who have downloaded that vwap_std template, the vwap is correct, but the stdev lines are off. I failed to weight the prices properly for a vwap. The stdev lines are shown with equally weighted prices, and they are different from Jerry's. My apologies to those who have tried it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I failed to weight the prices properly for a vwap. The stdev lines are shown with equally weighted prices,

 

How are you weighting the bands? I've been messing around with trying to get this going for ninjatrader but its just a mess. I've backed off and have been doing basic C# tutorials so hopefully i can get this going at some point. The nice thing with ninja is it would be free for anyone to use.

 

multiplier3 = 3

VWAPUpper3.Set(VWAPLine[0] + multiplier3 * vwapsd[0])

 

i take it thats the wrong way? The weighting would be 2nd std dev by .7 something and 3rd by .9 something?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is the ES price action from yesterday, excellent trading day, with 1,2,5,10 Days VWAP & SD and 1 Month (this is my history depth). Nice price action next to previous SD HUPs marked in ellipses. Todays statistics are solid lines and longer period are the dash lines.

 

 

Cheers

Karish

ES-1-Nov-07.thumb.png.9a8494e87d3d9b42fed05ebd40968eb4.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
How are you weighting the bands? I've been messing around with trying to get this going for ninjatrader but its just a mess. I've backed off and have been doing basic C# tutorials so hopefully i can get this going at some point. The nice thing with ninja is it would be free for anyone to use.

 

multiplier3 = 3

VWAPUpper3.Set(VWAPLine[0] + multiplier3 * vwapsd[0])

 

i take it thats the wrong way? The weighting would be 2nd std dev by .7 something and 3rd by .9 something?

 

Hi darth weightings (and the maths for that matter) where discussed in one of the earlier threads....a quick review might be worthwhile :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

did you ever get your code done in EZ? I didn't realize you use multicharts. Any chance you could post the code up for what you have? I can probly translate stuff to c# but damn i really need to work on my innumeracy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thanks for this thread JPerl. I am unable to play the Flash presentation -- are others experiencing problems or is it my computer? Thanks for a reply.

 

Hey ticks, look back through the threads and you will find a couple of links to freeware to play the videos with. I think they are in threads II or III. Hope this helps.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Excuse me going slightly off topic How do you like Ninja?

 

you should check it out. I think its absolutely fantastic. To me all it needs is for more people to start using it to build up the library of stuff for it. It can basically draw anything on a chart because its just using MS .net drawing tools. I messed around with the finalg market delta demo, the guy completely knocked off the entire market delta footprint and all the ways of displaying data with the .net drawing classes. I think right now you could use any heavy duty math/stat class thats available for C# with it if you wanted to get heavy into data analysis. Maybe the only downside is its a bit heavy on resources with all the graphics anti aliased but it looks very pretty. :)

Another cool thing is if you learn C# it would be an easy transition to neoticker or openquant. Its just crazy they are giving away everything but the super DOM for free right now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just found Jerry's threads after watching him post his daily p&l for about the last year. Talk about an epiphany.

 

I read about 5 threads last night (many posts and 7 videos of newbie) and then watched the es bounce off the vwap about 7 times this am.

 

I have an 8 line dyo that calculates the vwap in ensign and i am looking for the standard deviation calc from a fellow ensign user if i can't figure it out.

 

I have written a 2600 line ensign espl program for backtesting a retrace setup but i don't find espl too stable for intraday signals.

 

Anyways i am really happy to have found a whole nests of posts by Jerry and even happier he has shared his knowledge.

 

Thanks Jerry.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jerry - what time do you start your vwap from for intraday?

 

Ensign currently starts from midnight, but that is not good for comparing to a market profile or pvp that starts at 9:30 est..

 

I think most market profilers/volume studies start or restart at mkt open

 

On the other hand i see some of your trading was already green by 9:30am meaning you must have done some trading during pre-market.

 

Questions like these would be good to address in voice.

 

I currently have done it both ways till Howard fixes it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jerry - what time do you start your vwap from for intraday?

 

Ensign currently starts from midnight, but that is not good for comparing to a market profile or pvp that starts at 9:30 est..

 

I start my VWAP computation for today at the 9:30 open. But even if you start it at the beginning of the overnight session, it usually won't make much difference. Remember, VWAP is volume weighted and there is not much volume overnight compared to the 9:30 open.

 

On the other hand i see some of your trading was already green by 9:30am meaning you must have done some trading during pre-market.

Occaisionally, I will enter a trade premarket open using VWAP data from the previous day, but not too often.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi, Jerry and the other traders.

I trade the Bund with the market profile and want more understand.

Too, sorry for my bad english language, sorry.

Someone can write a summary of the main lines of your method for a French newbie trader (to this fantastic method), advanced trader to the MP of steidlmayer.

i understand the vwap, the skew, the pvp, the trend, the SD but not exactly for the symetric distribution (rejection or acceptance of the 1SD, reverse or scale or ok) and when a normal distribution, the price close to 1SD and countertrend of the skew. (skew>0 and price < vwap).

A summary of all the posts of Jerry, will be the hightlight for me.

Best regards.

Alexandre.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Jerry,

In previous threads you mentioned that HUPs play an important role in the momentum of the trade and also offsetting the entry point for a trade from SD. Now that we are in the HUP business can you please explain it in more details.

Thx,

Karish

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hi Jerry,

In previous threads you mentioned that HUPs play an important role in the momentum of the trade and also offsetting the entry point for a trade from SD. Now that we are in the HUP business can you please explain it in more details.

Thx,

Karish

 

Karish,

If you think of the HUP lines as pivot points, you will understand what I am referring to in the previous threads.

For example suppose you are thinking about entering a short trade at the 1st SD below the VWAP. As the price action approaches the 1st SD from below, you notice there is a HUP point just below the SD. What do you do? It would seem to me the only thing you should do is pull the short trigger at the HUP rather than wait to see if the SD is touched.

Similarly on trade exit. If you enter a long trade say at the VWAP with the intent of exiting at the 1st SD, but you notice there is a HUP line just below the SD, you should exit your trade at the HUP or at least remove some contracts at the HUP rather than wait to see if the SD will be touched.

These are just two examples that I use every day.

There is a rich variety of other things you can do at HUP lines, but I will leave it to you to discover these on your own.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hi, Jerry and the other traders.

I trade the Bund with the market profile and want more understand.

Too, sorry for my bad english language, sorry.

Someone can write a summary of the main lines of your method for a French newbie trader (to this fantastic method), advanced trader to the MP of steidlmayer.

iA summary of all the posts of Jerry, will be the hightlight for me.

Best regards.

Alexandre.

 

Alexamder.

This may help you;

Tale a look at the post by Blowfish and my response here

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Date: 21st November 2024. Gold Regains Momentum as NVIDIA Delivers a Revenue Surge! NVIDIA beat earnings expectations, and nearly doubled revenue on an annual basis. NVIDIA stocks dip slightly despite strong earnings and a strong forecast for the current quarter. Analysts expect market participants to purchase the dip. The Japanese Yen wins back some ground as Bank of Japan Governor indicates the regulator will be willing to hike to support the FX market. Gold, Silver and other Metals all rise due to predictions of high retail and institutional demand and geopolitical tensions remaining high. NASDAQ – NVIDIA Surpasses Earnings Expectations! The NASDAQ took a sudden dip on Wednesday measuring 1.50%, however, investors quickly took the opportunity to purchase at the lower price as most indicators fell to give an oversold indication. As a result, the NASDAQ ended the day only slightly lower than the open price, but downward momentum remains this morning. The downward momentum is partially due to geopolitical tensions which are on the rise. Yesterday, Ukraine fired UK-made missiles into Russia and fired US-made the day before. There are also reports and speculations that Russia has sent ICB Missiles into Ukraine for the first time. However, reports are not confirmed, and there are signs of certain stocks recovering. Currently, there is no economic data which is driving the lack of demand, therefore investors are mainly concentrating on NVIDIA earnings. NVIDIA beat earnings expectations by 8.50% and revenue by 5.90%. Investors were particularly impressed by the significantly higher revenue which has almost doubled annually. In addition to this, the forecast given for the current quarter came in relatively strong. Lastly, the CEO, Jenson Huang, said to Bloomberg that demand exceeds supply but the company is setting in place measures to boost supply in order to meet the high level of demand. Taking into consideration the strong earnings, positive tone and upbeat forecasts for the coming quarter, many may wonder, “why is the stock declining 2.50% during this morning’s Asian session?”. This is partially due to the lower risk appetite, but also due to certain forecast expectations for NVIDIA not being met. The average NVIDIA forecast expectations from Wall Street firms was $37.1 billion, which NVIDIA comfortably surpassed. However, certain firms had expectations as high as $41 billion. Based on these higher expectations, the company underachieved and could trigger a lack of demand from this sector of Wall Street. Though many analysts continue to expect shareholders to purchase the lower price as long as the stock market will remain favorable.   EURJPY – BOJ To Consider Hike! The EURJPY declines for a second consecutive day, particularly gaining bearish momentum after this morning’s Bank of Japan press conference. The main takeaway from the press conference was that the Governor told journalists that the BOJ was willing to hike interest rates in the upcoming months but decisions will be made meeting by meeting. The Bank of Japan’s decision to raise interest rates in July was influenced in part by the weak Yen, which had driven up import costs and inflation. At the Europlace Financial Forum in Tokyo, Governor Kazuo Ueda emphasized that exchange-rate fluctuations are a key consideration in shaping economic and inflation forecasts. He noted that the central bank carefully examines what is driving these currency changes when assessing their impact. The EURJPY now trades below the 75-Bar Exponential Moving Average and below the 50.00 on the RSI. In addition to this, the exchange rate continues to form lower swing lows while the Euro underperforms against most currencies. These indications point towards a potential downward price movement.   Gold – Geopolitical Tensions Send Gold on a Bullish Path! Gold has increased in value for a fourth consecutive day, driven largely by geopolitical tensions. Additionally, the absence of significant US economic news has left markets uncertain about the Federal Reserve’s next move. Gold is currently witnessing an active buy signal from most momentum-based indicators due to the strong bullish momentum. For example, traders are able to see the price trading above the Bollinger Band, within a bullish moving average crossover and significantly high on most oscilators. However, investors should note as the price increases, the asset can become overbought and this may trigger a retracement, a correction or sideways price movement. In terms of geopolitical tensions, hopes for a Middle East ceasefire are being tempered by Russia’s revision of its nuclear doctrine, which aims to strengthen its borders after the US-approved long-range strikes from Ukraine reached deep into Russian territory. Meanwhile, Donald Trump’s re-election has yet to significantly influence the conflict, though markets remain optimistic about potential positive developments following his January 20 inauguration. Always trade with strict risk management. Your capital is the single most important aspect of your trading business. Please note that times displayed based on local time zone and are from time of writing this report. Click HERE to access the full HFM Economic calendar. Want to learn to trade and analyse the markets? Join our webinars and get analysis and trading ideas combined with better understanding of how markets work. Click HERE to register for FREE! Click HERE to READ more Market news. Michalis Efthymiou HFMarkets Disclaimer: This material is provided as a general marketing communication for information purposes only and does not constitute an independent investment research. Nothing in this communication contains, or should be considered as containing, an investment advice or an investment recommendation or a solicitation for the purpose of buying or selling of any financial instrument. All information provided is gathered from reputable sources and any information containing an indication of past performance is not a guarantee or reliable indicator of future performance. Users acknowledge that any investment in FX and CFDs products is characterized by a certain degree of uncertainty and that any investment of this nature involves a high level of risk for which the users are solely responsible and liable. We assume no liability for any loss arising from any investment made based on the information provided in this communication. This communication must not be reproduced or further distributed without our prior written permission.  
    • AMD Advanced Micro Devices stock with local support and resistance at 131.19, 138.37, and 146.97 at https://stockconsultant.com/?AMD
    • MD Pediatrix Medical stock watrch, good trend, pull back to 14.42 support area with good trade quality at https://stockconsultant.com/?MD
    • WGS GeneDx stock watch, pull back to 70.29 gap support area with bullish indicators at https://stockconsultant.com/?WGS
    • Date: 20th November 2024. Market Rebounds as Putin Signals Readiness for Peace Talks; Focus Shifts to NVIDIA! US Stocks drop to a 2-week low after Ukraine fired US-made missiles into Russia, but rebound in the US session. Putin updates nuclear doctrine, allowing Russia to strike Ukraine if it uses weapons from nuclear-armed nations. Walmart again beat earnings expectations pushing the stock 3.00% higher. Earnings Per Share beat expectations by 8.00%. The Japanese Yen loses momentum and corrects back to previous lows. The US Dollar maintains strong bullish momentum. UK Inflation Rate rises from 1.7% to 2.3% supporting the GBP despite budget concerns continuing. NVIDIA is set to release their quarterly earnings report after market close. NVIDIA stock has risen more than 5.00% indicating the market expects a beat. NASDAQ – All Eyes On NVIDIA Earnings Report! The NASDAQ ended Tuesday 0.71% higher despite coming under significant pressure during the Asian and European session. The NASDAQ fell 1.20% during the day’s first two sessions due to geopolitical tensions triggering a much lower risk appetite. This is due to the US as well as other countries agreeing to allow Ukraine to strike Russia with foreign made weapons. Ukraine quickly took advantage of this by firing ATACMS into Russia. Russia responded by changing their nuclear weapon use doctrine. Here we can see why the global stock market fell rapidly. However, why did the market recover during the US session? During the US session, the risk appetite and confidence of the market improved as the White House confirmed nothing changes with Russia changing their Nuclear Weapons Doctrine. In addition to this, President Putin also said that he would be willing to start peace talks with President Elect Trump. Lastly, the market also took the opportunity to purchase the lower price since NVIDIA’s earnings report is imminent and Walmart already beat their earnings expectations. Walmart is not a component of the NASDAQ, but has improved the sentiment towards the US stock market. NVIDIA, which is on the NASDAQ, is set to release their quarterly earnings report after market close. NVIDIA stock rose 4.89% yesterday and a further 0.47% this morning indicating the market expects a beat. Analysts expect the company’s Earnings Per Share to rise from $0.68 to $0.75 and revenue from $30.04 billion to $33.14 billion. As no US economic data is set to be made public throughout the day, investors are solely concentrating on geopolitical tensions and earnings. The price of the NASDAQ rose above the 75-bar exponential moving average on the 2-hour chart for the first time since 14th. Traders will be monitoring whether the index will be able to maintain momentum above this level and if the price may also rise above the 100-bar SMA. Traders will be waiting for the NASDAQ to regain bullish momentum and if so will act accordingly. Buy signals are likely to rise if the price increases above $20,764.30 and intensifies above $20,777.93. GBPUSD – UK Inflation Rises Above Expectations! The price of the GBPUSD increased in value taking the exchange rate to a 1-week high, but concerns remain according to analysts. The exchange rate is trading 0.30% higher after the UK made public their latest inflation rate. The UK inflation rate rose from 1.7% to 2.3% which is higher than previous expectations and considerably higher than the previous month. The GBP is currently the best performing currency with the Pound index trading 0.21% higher. However, the second best performing is the US Dollar Index which is trading 0.14% higher. Therefore, investors need to be cautious that a retrace or correction is still possible while the US Dollar Index remains high. Currently the Pound is coming under pressure from the Autumn Budget and from farming strikes which are continuing. However, comments from the Bank of England could support the currency. The BoE warns that planned National Insurance hikes in the Labour budget may drive up prices, slow wage growth, and reduce hiring. Significant inflation could force prolonged tight monetary policy. Always trade with strict risk management. Your capital is the single most important aspect of your trading business. Please note that times displayed based on local time zone and are from time of writing this report. Click HERE to access the full HFM Economic calendar. Want to learn to trade and analyse the markets? Join our webinars and get analysis and trading ideas combined with better understanding of how markets work. Click HERE to register for FREE! Click HERE to READ more Market news. Michalis Efthymiou HFMarkets Disclaimer: This material is provided as a general marketing communication for information purposes only and does not constitute an independent investment research. Nothing in this communication contains, or should be considered as containing, an investment advice or an investment recommendation or a solicitation for the purpose of buying or selling of any financial instrument. All information provided is gathered from reputable sources and any information containing an indication of past performance is not a guarantee or reliable indicator of future performance. Users acknowledge that any investment in FX and CFDs products is characterized by a certain degree of uncertainty and that any investment of this nature involves a high level of risk for which the users are solely responsible and liable. We assume no liability for any loss arising from any investment made based on the information provided in this communication. This communication must not be reproduced or further distributed without our prior written permission.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.